Ovid, Metam., XIII, about line 12, ff.

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hlawson38
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Ovid, Metam., XIII, about line 12, ff.

Post by hlawson38 »

Context: Ajax with extreme contempt continues insulting Ulysses for a coward in order to show that Ajax, and not Ulysses, is worthy to bear the arms of the great Achilles.

Starting about line 112, not 12. I don't know how to edit the subject line.
debilitaturum quid te petis, Improbe, munus?
Quod tibi si populi donaverit error Achivi,
cur spolieris, erit, non cur metuaris ab hoste,
et fuga, qua sola cunctos, timidissime, vincis,
tarda futura tibi est gestamina tanta trahenti.

Translation: You sorry rascal, why do you want the honor [munus, i.e., Achilles's armor] that would slow you down; which, if the Greek people by mistake gave you, would be taken away [from you by the enemy], who wouldn't fear it [seeing that you are the one wearing it]; and flight, the only thing in which you outdo [vincis] everybody else [cunctos], would be slow for you, carrying such heavy garb.

fuga ... tarda futura ... est: flight would be slow

tibi . . . gestamina tanta trahenti: for you dragging such heavy garb
Hugh Lawson

Hylander
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Re: Ovid, Metam., XIII, about line 12, ff.

Post by Hylander »

"Why are you pursuing a prize that will wear you out, you wretch? But if a mistake by the Achaean people awards it to you, it will be [a reason] why you are despoiled, not why you are feared, by the enemy., and flight, the only thing in which you outdo everybody else [good translation!] will be slow for you, dragging such a heavy load."

donaverit is future perfect indicative; erit and futura are future indicative: "will", not "would". This is just an ordinary future condition.

I would analyze cur spolieris . . . cur metuaris (both subjunctive) as indirect questions.

The emphasis is on the physical weight of the armor to which Ulysses will be unequal: debilitaturum means something not unlike "debilitate", and gestamina is a heavy load, not clothing.

It doesn't make a difference in meaning , but populi donaverit error Achivi is a neat transferral of the decision from the Achaeans to "error", a sort of enallage, a rhetorical figure that's worth capturing in translation.

Most of the arguments put forward by the parties in Ovid's version of this dispute relate to something in Homer, and that's part of what makes this rhetorical exercise amusing (and the arguments on both sides so outrageous). I think Ovid is here alluding to an episode in the Iliad where Odysseus and Diomedes are continuing to fight after the rest of the Achaeans have fled the onslaught of the Trojans led by Hector. Diomedes is wounded and withdraws, leaving Odysseus fighting on, but eventually he too is forced to withdraw. In other words, Ajax is disingenuously turning an act of bravery on Odysseus' part into an act of cowardice.
Bill Walderman

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Re: Ovid, Metam., XIII, about line 12, ff.

Post by mwh »

The first line, with its debilitaturum, is clarified by the following ones, so I don’t think “But” is right for quod. It’s more like “for it …”, or simply “which”, or start with “If … it”? Actually I think the question mark would be better placed after ab hoste. But it’s often difficult to know just where to place the question mark in cases like this, which start as a question and develop into statements. (It’s a false problem, really, since Vergil’s readers had no question marks.)
Or quid could be taken directly with munus, “What award are you after that will weaken you? One that …”. But this is rhetorically less good I think, and quid is not quale. But for me quid is not quite “Why?”, but something like “What do you mean by seeking …”. Or is this an imaginary difference? (And is futura est quite the same as erit?)

You both ignore timidissime, but its doesn’t much matter since that’s the thrust of the line. Ovid’s representation of each of the two is founded in various Homeric events but is also colored by post-Homeric characterizations, esp. the Greek tragedians I think.

hlawson38
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Re: Ovid, Metam., XIII, about line 12, ff.

Post by hlawson38 »

Thanks to Hylander and mwh for their comments. I had a lot of trouble with this passage, and in fact edited the post a couple of times after I had submitted it.
Hugh Lawson

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