Textkit Logo

....LLPSI Cap XLV

Here you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Latin, and more.

....LLPSI Cap XLV

Postby pmda » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:02 pm

Cum cives Romani alii super alios trucidentur, exsulatum eant, bona amittant, quid spei melioris Latinis portendi? Si se audiant, domum omnes inde abituros!'

Not sure what alii super alios means in this context.

While some Roman citizens are slaughtered over others, they go into exile, they scatter? their goods, what portends greater hope for the Latini? (what is of greater hope to the Latini ?)
pmda
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1313
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:15 am

Re: ....LLPSI Cap XLV

Postby Barry Hofstetter » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:55 pm

pmda wrote:Cum cives Romani alii super alios trucidentur, exsulatum eant, bona amittant, quid spei melioris Latinis portendi? Si se audiant, domum omnes inde abituros!'

Not sure what alii super alios means in this context.

While some Roman citizens are slaughtered over others, they go into exile, they scatter? their goods, what portends greater hope for the Latini? (what is of greater hope to the Latini ?)


To answer your main question:

b. Of that which is over and above a certain number or quantity, over, above, beyond, upon, besides, in addition to (not freq. till after the Aug. period): quod alii super alios legati venirent speculaturi, i. e. in rapid succession, constantly, Liv. 42, 25, 8:

Lewis, C. T., & Short, C. (1891). Harpers’ Latin Dictionary (p. 1803). New York; Oxford: Harper & Brothers; Clarendon Press.

I would render "Since Roman citizens are being slaughtered one after another, since they go into exile and lose their property, what better hope is indicated to the Latins? If they hear him, all will return home from there..."

I had to look at the unedited Livy fully to make sense of this:

sin suos eius paeniteat, quippe qui alii super alios trucidentur, exulatum eant, bona amittant, quid spei melioris Latinis portendi? si se audiant, domum suam quemque inde abituros neque magis observaturos diem concilii, quam ipse, qui indixerit, observet.

I was wondering what made sense of the infinitives and subjunctives here, and then the little Latin bird in my head said "indirect statement earlier in the context," and sure enough:

iam magna Tarquini auctoritas inter Latinorum proceres erat, cum in diem certam ut ad lucum Ferentinae conveniant indicit...

From Livy 1.50.1ff.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
The Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Barry Hofstetter
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 546
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:22 pm

Re: ....LLPSI Cap XLV

Postby mwh » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:15 am

pmda, you realize that the first three verbs all belong to the cum clause and are grammatically parallel with one another? Latin doesn’t need to put “and” between them.

The se, as well as the acc. and infin. construction, shows that this is indirect statement: If they listen to him (the speaker), they’ll all get to go home. This answers the quid spei melioris … ? question. There's no need to refer to the original Livy to make sense of it.
mwh
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 2720
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:34 am

Re: ....LLPSI Cap XLV

Postby Barry Hofstetter » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:19 am

mwh wrote:pmda, you realize that the first three verbs all belong to the cum clause and are grammatically parallel with one another? Latin doesn’t need to put “and” between them.

The se, as well as the acc. and infin. construction, shows that this is indirect statement: If they listen to him (the speaker), they’ll all get to go home. This answers the quid spei melioris … ? question. There's no need to refer to the original Livy to make sense of it.


For someone of your vast erudition (you know, that's actually NOT sarcastic) maybe not, but edited sentences out of context often give me fits, so it helps me, and I think maybe others as well.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
The Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Barry Hofstetter
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 546
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:22 pm

Re: ....LLPSI Cap XLV

Postby mwh » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:33 am

Sure, it’s always better to read the original in context than a modified version in isolation, but the modified version makes perfectly good sense as it stands, and for a beginner is easier to understand than the original would be. That’s the whole point of it.

And enough with the "vast erudition," please, sarcastically or not. I learn as I go, as I trust we all do.
mwh
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 2720
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:34 am

Re: ....LLPSI Cap XLV

Postby pmda » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:44 pm

Many thanks. I've been neglecting my Latin a bit as of late and probably should have spent more time on this before submitting a question.
pmda
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1313
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:15 am


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], pin130 and 90 guests