Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
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Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
Hello!!
"Ităque, memor Nessi praecepti,
uestem tinctam Centauri sanguĭne, Hercŭli qui ferret, nomĭne
Licham famŭlum misit"
I couldn't find to which verbs these accusatives belong. And this nomĭne what it means?
"Ităque, memor Nessi praecepti,
uestem tinctam Centauri sanguĭne, Hercŭli qui ferret, nomĭne
Licham famŭlum misit"
I couldn't find to which verbs these accusatives belong. And this nomĭne what it means?
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
I'm going to make a slight change in word order and punctuation. You should be able to get it now; if you don't I'll explain it more explicitly.
Itaque, memor Nessi praecepti, nomine "Licham" famulum misit, Herculi qui ferret vestem tinctam Centauri sanguine.
Itaque, memor Nessi praecepti, nomine "Licham" famulum misit, Herculi qui ferret vestem tinctam Centauri sanguine.
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
Let me try to translate it now:
"And so, remembering the command of Nessus, she sent the hungry Licham to Hercules who carries the cloth impregnated with the blood of the centarus."
I didn't find a way to translate the the ablative of nomen. And I'm not sure if Herculi is here as dative of genitive. It seems that it could have the same ending in both cases.
"And so, remembering the command of Nessus, she sent the hungry Licham to Hercules who carries the cloth impregnated with the blood of the centarus."
I didn't find a way to translate the the ablative of nomen. And I'm not sure if Herculi is here as dative of genitive. It seems that it could have the same ending in both cases.
Last edited by Kachikawawa on Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
Right, so we're not quite there yet. First things first, the word famulus (which also exists in English) means "house-servant" - it's actually where the word "family" comes from, familia being the whole group of famuli. (This is the perfectly classical sense of the word.) You may have been thinking of the word famelicus, from fames.
You translated "qui ferret" with "who carries". This is wrong for two reasons: the first is that it's the wrong tense - the Latin has a past tense which you understood as present. The second is that it fails to convey the reason why the Latin has ferret in the imperfect subjunctive. This is a case of the "final subjunctive", -- she sent the servant, who would take the clothes -- meaning a subjunctive with the force of a final, also known as a purpose, clause.
nomine Licham famulum - a servant that was Licha[s] "as concerns his name" - so, a servant called Lichas.
In Hyginus' phrasing the final-relative clause comes before the noun to which it refers. This is called anticipation or prolepsis (or cataphora).
You translated "qui ferret" with "who carries". This is wrong for two reasons: the first is that it's the wrong tense - the Latin has a past tense which you understood as present. The second is that it fails to convey the reason why the Latin has ferret in the imperfect subjunctive. This is a case of the "final subjunctive", -- she sent the servant, who would take the clothes -- meaning a subjunctive with the force of a final, also known as a purpose, clause.
nomine Licham famulum - a servant that was Licha[s] "as concerns his name" - so, a servant called Lichas.
Let's have some common-sense here. Yes, it has identical endings, but how on earth would a genitive here make any sense? It's dative. A servant who would take it to Hercules.I'm not sure if Herculi is here as dative of genitive. It seems that it has both endings in each case.
In Hyginus' phrasing the final-relative clause comes before the noun to which it refers. This is called anticipation or prolepsis (or cataphora).
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
Understood!!
"She sent the servant called Licha to Hercules who would take the cloth impregnated with the blood of the centarus. "
"She sent the servant called Licha to Hercules who would take the cloth impregnated with the blood of the centarus. "
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
Yes, that's much better.Kachikawawa wrote:Understood!!
"She sent the servant called Licha to Hercules who would take the cloth impregnated with the blood of the centarus. "
Herculi is dative but goes with ferret. Also tincta-impregnated?! The verb is tingere, which literally means to dye, to soak, to dip into a liquid.
"She sent the servant Licha to take to Hercules the cloth soaked with the Centaur's blood."
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
Thank you so much for the help!!!!
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
"Quod Deianira ut uidit, alĭter esse ac Nessus
dixĕrat intellexit, et qui reuocaret eum, cui uestem dedĕrat,
misit."
[*]How could we traslate the "ut": "AS Deinara sees it"?
[*]Why are there these two conjugated verbs in same sentence: "dixĕrat intellexit"?
[*]Does this "misit" really have a accusative here?
dixĕrat intellexit, et qui reuocaret eum, cui uestem dedĕrat,
misit."
[*]How could we traslate the "ut": "AS Deinara sees it"?
[*]Why are there these two conjugated verbs in same sentence: "dixĕrat intellexit"?
[*]Does this "misit" really have a accusative here?
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
When. Remember Vergil's rightly famous: ut vidi, ut perii!, ut me meus abstulit amor!, - when I saw[*]How could we traslate the "ut": "AS Deinara sees it"?
Words expressing either similitude or difference can take either the dative/genitive, or else the word "atque/ac". When you are expressing a difference in a whole clause it can be either atque/ac or quam, if you're expressing similitude it has to be atque/ac. Here the sense is:[*]Why are there these two conjugated verbs in same sentence: "dixĕrat intellexit"?
[Hoc] Deianira ut uidit,
intellexit
alĭter esse
ac Nessus dixĕrat.
When Deinaira saw this [quod is just a connecting relative],
she understood
it to be [accusative sentence due to intelligere] different
than what Nessus had said.
No. It's elided. It's more or less the same (also a relative/final clause) as in the previous passage you asked about.[*]Does this "misit" really have a accusative here
qui reuocaret eum, cui uestem dedĕrat, misit.
misit [aliquem] qui revocaret eum, cui vestem dederat.
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
Thanks!!! So:
"She understood it to be different than what Nessus had said, and she sent someone in order to call him back, whom she had given the cloth"?
"She understood it to be different than what Nessus had said, and she sent someone in order to call him back, whom she had given the cloth"?
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
Perfect.Kachikawawa wrote:Thanks!!! So:
"She understood it to be different than what Nessus had said, and she sent someone in order to call him back, whom she had given the cloth"?
"[When Deianira saw this], She understood it to be different than what Nessus had said, and she sent someone in order to call back the one to whom she had given the cloth"?
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
Hello!!
This phrase is driving me crazy:
Postquam Iuno vidit Epapho ex pellice nato tantam regni potestatem esse, curat in venatu, ut Epaphus necetur, Titanosque hortatur, Iovem ut regno pellant et Saturno restituant.
The first sentence is already really hard: After Juno saw the royal power being ?? with Epaphus born of a concubine??
Is "tantam regni potestatem" object of "vidit" or "esse"?
This phrase is driving me crazy:
Postquam Iuno vidit Epapho ex pellice nato tantam regni potestatem esse, curat in venatu, ut Epaphus necetur, Titanosque hortatur, Iovem ut regno pellant et Saturno restituant.
The first sentence is already really hard: After Juno saw the royal power being ?? with Epaphus born of a concubine??
Is "tantam regni potestatem" object of "vidit" or "esse"?
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
Postquam Iuno vidit:
[Epapho ex pellice nato] tantam regni potestatem esse
Esse+dat means "to have, to own" - est mihi liber :: I have a book.
Epapho ex pellice nato is a dative.
Is this easier?
[Epapho ex pellice nato] tantam regni potestatem esse
Esse+dat means "to have, to own" - est mihi liber :: I have a book.
Epapho ex pellice nato is a dative.
Is this easier?
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
Thanks!! Is it correct:
"After Juno saw Epaphus having more royal power, she arranges, when hunting, to kill Epaphus, she encourages the Titans to banish Jupiter from the kingdom and to rebuild with Saturno."
"After Juno saw Epaphus having more royal power, she arranges, when hunting, to kill Epaphus, she encourages the Titans to banish Jupiter from the kingdom and to rebuild with Saturno."
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
"tantus,a,um" does not mean "more". It means "so much".
"Titanosque hortatur" :: AND she encourages
pellere can mean banish, sure, but banish has legal undertones. Here it just means to expel.
Saturno restituant :: Saturno is dative. Restituere means to give back.
"Titanosque hortatur" :: AND she encourages
pellere can mean banish, sure, but banish has legal undertones. Here it just means to expel.
Saturno restituant :: Saturno is dative. Restituere means to give back.
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae
Understood!! Thank you very much!!!