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quem primum

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quem primum

Postby pmda » Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:31 am

Orberg : LLPSI Cap XLIV. Rex maiores interrogat:

Confestim rex his ferme verbis patres consulebat: "De iis rebus quas legatus populi Romani Quiritium a Latinis repetivit, quas res nec dederunt nec solverunt nec fecerunt, quas res dari, solvi, fieri oportuit, dic" inquit ei quem primum sententiam rogabat. "quid censes?"

Two questions:

1) Are dederunt, solverunt, fecerunt used here for effect ? They all appear to mean roughly the same thing. 'our land is not given, released, made (over)'?

2) inquit ei quem primum sententiam rogobat...

This is slightly confusing. 'inquit ei' ei is dative but quem is accusative but what is the subject of quem?

I'll hazard a quess. 'inquit ei' - he first asked one this (quem) first thought - i.e. the thought which he's just been quoted as saying.
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Re: quem primum

Postby seneca2008 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:20 am

"nec dederunt nec solverunt nec fecerunt"

is a tricolon (like veni vidi vixi) so its a definitely a rhetorical device. I think the meanings you have chosen are not quite right. These things which they have not delivered discharged or done seems closer.

"2) inquit ei quem primum sententiam rogabat..."

quem and sententiam are both objects of rogabat "whom he used (was wont) to ask for his opinion first. inquit ei "turning to him". so ei and quem are the same individual.
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Re: quem primum

Postby pmda » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:49 pm

Many thanks.
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Re: quem primum

Postby mwh » Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:31 am

veni vidi vixi: famously said by Caesar as he was stabbed to death.
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Re: quem primum

Postby bedwere » Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:55 am

mwh wrote:veni vidi vixi: famously said by Caesar as he was stabbed to death.

Καὶ σύ, Μιχαήλ; :lol:
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Re: quem primum

Postby pmda » Tue May 23, 2017 6:25 pm

Confestim rex his ferme verbis patres consulebat: "De iis rebus quas legatus populi Romani Quiritium a Latinis repetivit, quas res nec dederunt nec solverunt nec fecerunt, quas res dari, solvi, fieri oportuit, dic" inquit ei quem primum sententiam rogabat. "quid censes?" Tum ille: "Puro pioque duello quaerendas censeo, itaque consentio consciscoque". Inde ordine alii rogabantur, quandoque pars maior eorum qui aderant in eandem sententiam ibat, bellum fieri erat consensum.

I'm trying to understand the grammar of the 2nd half of this paragraph.

...Tum ille: "Puro pioque duello quaerendas censeo,..." I take it that this gerundive is accusative because it is indirect speech... "I believe (they ) (i.e. things mentioned in the legate's earlier remark) to be worthy of retrieval..." so querendas is plural acc.

Then we have ...Inde ordine alii rogabantur, quandoque pars maior eorum qui aderant in eandem sententiam ibat, bellum fieri erat consensum.

Is bellum here accusative singlur? ie. 'consensum erat bellum fieri' there was agreement that war should be made - again indirect speech?
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