Unabridged Latin texts with notes

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sydneylam19
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Unabridged Latin texts with notes

Post by sydneylam19 »

Hi everyone, where can an intermediate Latin learner like me find unabridged Latin texts with notes and commentaries explaining literary style AND grammar? There are many Latin readers which aim at intermediate students, but I hope to find unabridged texts instead of a range of selections. In particular, I am looking for the twelve books of Ovid's Metamorphoses (Oklahoma Classical Series's only includes 10 books and there is too little explanation on grammar) and Amores as well as Cicero's Tusculan Disputations. Horace, Tacitus, Lucretius, Martial, Sallust, Martial, Nepos, Catullus and other less important authors would be reserved for the future - probably I'll get Loebs for these writers. I don't really like Livy.

I've thought of Cambridge Classical Texts, Teubners and OCTs but critical apparati are not useful to me. I've already gone through Wheelock Latin Reader.

Thank you.

hlawson38
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Re: Unabridged Latin texts with notes

Post by hlawson38 »

I suggest you select an author and title, and then google with additional search terms like "annotated", "parsed", "grammatical",and so on.

Here is an Amazon url that might interest you.

http://www.amazon.com/Horace-Fully-Pars ... 0865165521
Hugh Lawson

Hylander
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Re: Unabridged Latin texts with notes

Post by Hylander »

The Cambridge Greek and Latin Classics (Green and Yellow) series probably comes closest to your needs, but in that series there's no edition of the Tusculan Disputations and only a book or two of Ovid's Metamorphoses. It would be a good idea to start glancing at critical apparatuses once in a while, so that you get an idea of what shape your text is in, you become aware of textual problems, in which ancient texts abound, and you begin to learn how to use the critical notes. Incidentally, the Latin nom. plural of apparatus is apparatus, not apparati.

Bloomsbury, which seems to have taken over the Bristol Classical Texts and other publishers, offers a large selection of Latin annotated texts at your level, some of which are reprints of older editions.

http://www.bloomsbury.com/us/academic/a ... iterature/

You can also try to find used copies of older editions of various authors on AbeBooks. The old Macmillan series are generally quite good and still valuable--Page's Vergil in particular, despite its age. Over the course of the last century, however, there have been a lot of advances in scholarship--particularly in understanding the history and evolution of Latin literature, as well as Roman history, so if you use an older edition you might want to supplement it with more up-to-date readings.

The Oklahoma Metamorphoses commentaries are by William Anderson, who edited the Teubner Met. I recommend them highly. The Metamorphoses includes 15, not 12 books, and it's a pity he never produced an edition of the last 5 books.

You're going to have to pick up grammar by reading. I think you'll find that there are no commentaries that are exactly matched to your needs. Unfortunately, the best way to master Latin grammar is by reading Caesar, who presents all of the constructions you learned about in first-year Latin, and who writes in a clear, crisp and unadorned style. But his subject-matter--himself and his accomplishments--gets to be tedious. Cicero's speeches are also useful--and equally self-aggrandizing.

For reading poetry, you might want to acquire Wilkinson's Golden Latin Artistry. Reading Latin poetry requires specialized skills--mainly getting used to the artful asyndeton that the Roman poets cultivated. Vergil's Eclogues are probably a good starting-place for this, and Coleman's edition in the Cambridge series would be helpful.

Don't hesitate to post questions here.

Hope this helps.
Bill Walderman

sydneylam19
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Re: Unabridged Latin texts with notes

Post by sydneylam19 »

Hylander wrote: For reading poetry, you might want to acquire Wilkinson's Golden Latin Artistry. Reading Latin poetry requires specialized skills--mainly getting used to the artful asyndeton that the Roman poets cultivated.
Thank you soooo much for your helpful advice! What's Golden Latin Artistry about? There's no preview on Google Books or Amazon.

I have a Beginning Latin Poetry Reader with a rich selection from various poets published by McGraw-Hill. It is quite useful in explaining difficult grammar points and literary context.

sydneylam19
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Re: Unabridged Latin texts with notes

Post by sydneylam19 »

Hylander wrote:The Cambridge Greek and Latin Classics (Green and Yellow) series probably comes closest to your needs, but in that series there's no edition of the Tusculan Disputations and only a book or two of Ovid's Metamorphoses. It would be a good idea to start glancing at critical apparatuses once in a while, so that you get an idea of what shape your text is in, you become aware of textual problems, in which ancient texts abound, and you begin to learn how to use the critical notes. Incidentally, the Latin nom. plural of apparatus is apparatus, not apparati.

Bloomsbury, which seems to have taken over the Bristol Classical Texts and other publishers, offers a large selection of Latin annotated texts at your level, some of which are reprints of older editions.

http://www.bloomsbury.com/us/academic/a ... iterature/
Unfortunately, the Green and Yellow series and Bloomsbury do not have a one-volume unabridged Metamorphoses - how could such an important work be left out? :(

Anderson's commentaries are indeed very nice. I browsed through Knox's Heroides (Yellow and Green) in the library. Very good introduction and commentary as well - though it would be too difficult to delve into elegiac couplet without any general knowledge on Metamorphoses and Ovid.

Hylander
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Re: Unabridged Latin texts with notes

Post by Hylander »

I should have mentioned the complete Metamorphoses in four volumes by Hill in the Aris & Phillips series:

http://www.oxbowbooks.com/oxbow/catalog ... hoses+hill

These have the Latin text, a facing page English translation and notes keyed to the English translation but useful for reading the original. You can use the English translation for grammatical help. The whole A&P series of Greek and Latin works is quite good, at a high level of scholarship but accessible to students. An Oxford commentary by a number of different authors on the whole of the Met. is supposedly in progress--based on the Italian multi-volume commentary, and there is a full-scale commentary in German, but a commentary on the whole of the Met. is a gigantic undertaking. There is a recent Oxford Classical Text with apparatus but no commentary by Tarrant.
it would be too difficult to delve into elegiac couplet without any general knowledge on Metamorphoses and Ovid.
I'm not sure what your concern is. Ovid's elegiac poems might be a better starting-point than launching into a complete reading of the Metamorphoses.

Golden Latin Artistry is an exposition of the poetic techniques of Latin poets from Catullus through Ovid and beyond. You might find it helpful for learning to read Latin poetry--among other things, how the Latin hexameter works (not how to scan, but rather the dynamics and music of the verse; the ability to scan is pre-supposed), and how the Latin poets use the possibilities of an inflected language to shape word-order.
Bill Walderman

sydneylam19
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Re: Unabridged Latin texts with notes

Post by sydneylam19 »

Hylander wrote:I should have mentioned the complete Metamorphoses in four volumes by Hill in the Aris & Phillips series:

http://www.oxbowbooks.com/oxbow/catalog ... hoses+hill

These have the Latin text, a facing page English translation and notes keyed to the English translation but useful for reading the original. You can use the English translation for grammatical help. The whole A&P series of Greek and Latin works is quite good, at a high level of scholarship but accessible to students. An Oxford commentary by a number of different authors on the whole of the Met. is supposedly in progress--based on the Italian multi-volume commentary, and there is a full-scale commentary in German, but a commentary on the whole of the Met. is a gigantic undertaking. There is a recent Oxford Classical Text with apparatus but no commentary by Tarrant.
it would be too difficult to delve into elegiac couplet without any general knowledge on Metamorphoses and Ovid.
I'm not sure what your concern is. Ovid's elegiac poems might be a better starting-point than launching into a complete reading of the Metamorphoses.

Golden Latin Artistry is an exposition of the poetic techniques of Latin poets from Catullus through Ovid and beyond. You might find it helpful for learning to read Latin poetry--among other things, how the Latin hexameter works (not how to scan, but rather the dynamics and music of the verse; the ability to scan is pre-supposed), and how the Latin poets use the possibilities of an inflected language to shape word-order.
Thanks for all the useful information. I shall look up for Golden Latin Artistry.

Actually I'm not sure about where to start with for Ovid. Just that Metamorphoses is allegedly his most famous work, so I guess it must have something more to add to my Latin knowledge than his other epics, poems and elegies.

How do you think about Loeb's Metamorphoses?

sydneylam19
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Re: Unabridged Latin texts with notes

Post by sydneylam19 »

What do you think are the most worthwhile Latin prose authors to read? How do you like Pliny the Younger's letters and Seneca's style?

Would love to hear more from Textkiters. :D

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