Ablative Singular of the Present Participle

[LateStarter]

OK, it's time to admit my ignorance and clear up this niggling confusion concerning the "attributive adjective" use of the ablative singular present participle, i.e. the dormiente vs. dormienti question. In thinking about this from the standpoint of composition, is there some kind of trick or quick grammatical test I can apply that will help me to choose correctly? What about ablative absolutes - are they always one or the other, and if not, what led the Roman to his choice? Many thanks in advance.

[bedwere]

I don't know about "tricks" about distinguishing a participle used as a noun from one used as an adjective.

This is what Allen and Greenough wrote.

[LateStarter]

Well, when Livy composed his one-word ablative absolutes was he using the present participle as a substantive or an adjective with the pronoun understood? Curtius Rufus? Alii? No need to consult your bookshelf, with that level of snideness, I'm sure.

I appreciate the direct link to A&G; I note they say "especially," though not "universally," in the ablative absolute.

[horus92]

Yeah those rules are really not set in stone, I think they're more like averages.. Lucretius usually uses the ablative in -i throughout, for example.

I haven't read much Livy but it seems like he basically follows the pattern in A&G:

Itaque insequenti anno M. Popilio Laenate Cn. Manlio consulibus

Insequens being an adjective with anno

nec recipiente iam dilationem re, in posterum diem edicitur acie pugnaturos

Recipiente being more of a "participle proper", taking an object. I had never noticed or payed attention to that distinction before, pretty cool, though not a hard-and-fast rule like A&G says.

Do you have any examples of a one-word ablative absolute? I don't think I've ever seen one.

[Shenoute]

Do you have any examples of a one-word ablative absolute? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Here are a few examples:

- edicto, ne quis injussu pugnaret (Tit. Liv., V, 19)
- latoque, ut solet, ad populum ut equum escendere liceret (Tit. Liv., XXIII, 14)
- impetratoque ut manerent (Tit. Liv., IX, 30)
- libato (Verg., Aen. I, 737)
- in cuius transgressu multum certato peruicit Vardanes (Tac., Ann. XI, 10)
- evitatis, quae a iussu hominis pravissimi tela in eum iacta erant (Vell. Pat., II, 80, 3)

[horus92]

Do you have any examples of a one-word ablative absolute? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Here are a few examples:

- edicto, ne quis injussu pugnaret (Tit. Liv., V, 19)
- latoque, ut solet, ad populum ut equum escendere liceret (Tit. Liv., XXIII, 14)
- impetratoque ut manerent (Tit. Liv., IX, 30)
- libato (Verg., Aen. I, 737)
- in cuius transgressu multum certato peruicit Vardanes (Tac., Ann. XI, 10)
- evitatis, quae a iussu hominis pravissimi tela in eum iacta erant (Vell. Pat., II, 80, 3)

Thanks!