Horace, Odes, 1, 28: some difficult (for me) expressions

[hlawson38]

Context: In the final segment of this poem, the poetic voice is that of a dead man imploring a living passerby to perform a rite to dispose of corpse, which as I understand is ritually incomplete. Not only does the dead man make his request, he also threatens the living man with dire punishments for noncompliance. The idea seems to be that a just request for a service must be granted by an upright man, or punishment will be enforced by the gods.

The dead man speaking to the passerby, after making his request:

neglegis inmeritis nocituram
postmodo te natis fraudem conmittere? fors et
debita iura vicesque superbae
te maneant ipsum: precibus non linquar inultis
teque piacula nulla resolvent.
quamquam festinas, non est mora longa; licebit
iniecto ter pulvere curras.

Translation: Surely you know that punishment for your offenses will fall on your innocent descendants. Fate and the legal penalties owed and the humbling of haughtiness will wait for you yourself: I will not be abandoned, with my prayers unanswered, and no ritual offerings will get you off the hook. Although you are in a hurry, it won't delay you long; [ observe tradition with ] three handfuls of dust, and you can be on your way [with a clear conscience].

I think I get the passage reasonably well, but two phrases still bother me:

debita iura I think this must mean something like the expression "dues to be paid", in the sense of the idiom "he's got to pay some dues." But I can't quite match this up with the dictionary defintions.

vicesque superbae I think this means something like the fall that awaits the proud, in the expression "pride goeth before a fall". In the end the arrogant will get what's coming to them.

[Qimmik]

debita iura would be legal or other obligations, or simply justice, owed to the deceased.

See Lewis & Short IIB and C:

http://perseus.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/phi ... isandshort

vicesque superbae -- You're right about this. Think of the "vicissitudes" of fate. superbae seems to be transferred from the arrogant individual who is subject to the vicissitudes of fate to the vicissitudes themselves: the vicissitudes that await the arrogant.

fors et is an adverb "maybe." There are just two parallel things that possibly await the addressee: debita iura and vices superbae.

Lewis and Short fors:

fors, ellipt., for fors sit, it might happen, i. e. perchance, perhaps, peradventure (only poet. and in post-class. prose): similiter fors, cum sit nominativus, accipitur pro adverbio, Prisc. p. 1015 P.: et fors aequatis cepissent praemia rostris, Ni, etc., Verg. A. 5, 232; 6, 535: cesserit Ausonio si fors victoria Turno, if perchance, id. ib. 12, 183; Val. Fl. 3, 665; Tert. ad Uxor. 2, 2.—Esp. in the connection fors et, i. q. fortasse etiam, perhaps too: iste quod est, ego saepe fui, sed fors et in hora Hoc ipso ejecto carior alter erit, Prop. 2, 9, 1: et nunc ille quidem spe multum captus inani, Fors et vota facit cumulatque altaria donis, Verg. A. 11, 50; 2, 139: fors et Debita jura vicesque superbae Te maneant ipsum, Hor. C. 1, 28, 31; Stat. S. 3, 4, 4.—Less freq.: fors etiam, Val. Fl. 4, 620.—

http://perseus.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/phi ... isandshort

[hlawson38]

debita iura would be legal or other obligations, or simply justice, owed to the deceased.

[ snip ]

fors et is an adverb "maybe." There are just two parallel things that possibly await the addressee: debita iura and vices superbae.

The "debita iura": Thanks for the citation.

"Fors et" and "two parallel things": very helpful. I see that once again the very Horace cite in question is an example in the dictionary (on "fors et").

It's much easier to see these things after they are pointed out--an observation made by another poster earlier.