in qua exempli gratia

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pmda
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in qua exempli gratia

Post by pmda »

In Orberg LLPSI Cap XLIII some text by Cicero on the story of the Horatii is introduced. It's from De Inventione.

The introductory comments by Orberg are:

Cicero adulescens artem oratoriam scripsit 'De inventione', id est de inveniendis argumentis, in qua exempli gratia causam Horatii attulit:...

Cicero as an adolescent wrote the art of oratory 'De Inventione', it concerns arguments that are useful, in which, as an example, the case of the Horatii is discussed.

I'm perplexed by qua. I was also perplexed by exempli gratia but this, on its own, seems to mean 'for example'. However I don't know what the literal meaning of gratia is here?

But assuming it means for example what is qua doing in this sentence? It's feminine ablative singular relative pronoun and it seems to agree with gratia so does it simply mean in which as an example the case of the Horatii is discussed?

If it means 'which' as a relative pronoun then wouldn't it be standing in for arguments, in which case it would be neuter ablative quibus?

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swtwentyman
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Re: in qua exempli gratia

Post by swtwentyman »

I'm not sure what "inventione/inveniendis" means here. I'm familiar with it as "to find, discover" but my tentative translation is "invention" in the English sense (or in Vivaldi's "contest between harmony and invention"):

As a young man Cicero wrote the oratorical treatise "De inventione"; that is, "on (forming?) arguments", in which, for the sake of example, he discussed the case of the Horatii...

"Adulescens" is "young man" rather than "adolescent" in our sense. "In qua" = "in this treatise" (I found this in Lewis & Short for "ars"; "qua" goes with "ars"), "exempli gratia" is explained in English lists of Latin abbreviations as "for the sake of example", but I have trouble with the word "gratia" in general (another word I just can't get my head around is "usus". I understand it in the dictionary but it drives me crazy when I actually encounter it. "Agere" is another bugaboo. But I digress).

Please correct any of my errors.

Qimmik
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Re: in qua exempli gratia

Post by Qimmik »

my tentative translation is "invention" in the English sense (or in Vivaldi's "contest between harmony and invention
Yes, 'De inventione', id est de inveniendis argumentis, refers tot eh process of coming up with or constructing arguments, something like creativity in advocacy.

qua refers to artem oratoriam, which here seems to mean a "rhetorical treatise," as you suggest.

pmda
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Re: in qua exempli gratia

Post by pmda »

Thanks

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