Orberg Cap XLII

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pmda
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Orberg Cap XLII

Post by pmda »

Slightly (I suspect) idiomatic paragraph from Orberg (from Livy).

Omnibus [masc. dat. pl.] igitur patribus [masc. dat. pl.] placebat [= patres volunt] aliquod [neut. nom. sing.] caput [neut. nom. sing.] civitatis [gen. sing.] esse, nec vero quisquam alteri [masc. gen. sing] concedere volebat. Itaque centum patres summum imperium inter se consociaverunt. Deni simul quinos dies imperitabant, quorum principes, qui 'interreges' nominabantur, cum insignibus [dat. abl. pl.] imperii erant. Ita imperium per omnes in orbem ibat. Id 'interregnum' appellatum est.

Some leader [aliquod caput] of the people [civitatis esse] was pleasing to all of the elders and no one wished to consider any other. Accordingly a hundred elders constututed between them the highest authority. Ten ruled for five days each, leaders of which were known as the interreges [can't think of an English word], who were held by the insignia of empire [i.e. ruled as emperors?]. In this way the empire (purple) went to all. This was known as the 'interregnum'.

Orbem = circle...of the group?

Qimmik
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Re: Orberg Cap XLII

Post by Qimmik »

Omnibus igitur patribus placebat aliquod caput civitatis esse, -- caput here is neuter; it doesn't mean an individual "leader" but rather something more abstract: "leadership.' "Therefore, all of the senators were of the opinion [placebat] that there should be some sort of leadership of the community..."

See Lewis and Short, placeo II:

http://perseus.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/phi ... isandshort

nec vero quisquam alteri concedere volebat. -- Alteri is dative, not genitive. Genitive of alter is alterius. "...but no one wanted to yield to anyone else."

Itaque centum patres summum imperium inter se consociaverunt. -- Inter se consociaverunt here means that they shared power among themselves jointly. Imperium here is not "empire" but rather its original meaning: the authority to command the citizen-army. "And so the hundred senators shared the authority of command among themselves jointly."

Deni simul quinos dies imperitabant, quorum principes, qui 'interreges' nominabantur, cum insignibus imperii erant. "Ten exercised command [imperitabant] for five days each, of whom the leaders, who were called "interim kings," were [vested] with the symbols of command."

Ita imperium per omnes in orbem ibat. Id 'interregnum' appellatum est. -- "So the authority of command passed through all of them in rotation [in orbem]. This was called an "interregnum."

pmda
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Re: Orberg Cap XLII

Post by pmda »

Thanks Qimmik

pmda
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Re: Orberg Cap XLII

Post by pmda »

One more thing: insignibus is dative of possession

cun insignibus imperii erant

they were to the symbols of command.. i.e. vested with...as you say?

Shenoute
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Re: Orberg Cap XLII

Post by Shenoute »

Rather cum + abl. I think.

pmda
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Re: Orberg Cap XLII

Post by pmda »

I was thinking 'cum' as having temporal meaning.

Otherwise 'cum insignibus imperii erant' = 'while they were with (?) the insignia / signs of power'

It's the 'erant' I can't quite get.

Am I right in saying that this part of the sentence can be reduced to: 'principes cum insignibus imperii erant'

Qimmik
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Re: Orberg Cap XLII

Post by Qimmik »

Cum is the preposition "with" + ablative, not the conjunction "while".

pmda
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Re: Orberg Cap XLII

Post by pmda »

I've got that thanks - so it could be reduced to : principes cum insignibus imperii erant ?

Qimmik
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Re: Orberg Cap XLII

Post by Qimmik »

Yes.

Charlie Parker
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Re: Orberg Cap XLII

Post by Charlie Parker »

I am uncertain as to the precise sense of Deni simul quinos dies. I may be overcomplicating things, but I see two possibilities. The senators divided themselves into groups of ten and each of these groups took a turn at ruliing for five days. That is, that the ten men ruled together. Or each member of each group of ten ruled for five days. Thus, there was only one man in charge at a time.

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