Textkit Logo

Accent: quiscunque &c.

Here's where you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Moderator: thesaurus

Accent: quiscunque &c.

Postby Lavrentivs » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:55 pm

(Thanks for your reflexions on itaque. My initial suspicion was also that thinking of 'and so' and 'therefore' as two distinct senses of itaque may be post-classical and slightly degenerate: clearly its meaning is no more 'therefore' than the meaning of 'thus' is 'therefore', 'itaque' and 'thus' merely happen to be used in ways that are very similar to the ways in which 'therefore' is used.)

Looking at an old post about quisqunque &c. I can't see any decisive evidence that it is to be antepænultimately stressed. There seems to be a conflict of rules: the pænultima rule implies quiscúnque, and the rule about enclitic particles implies quísqunque. Know of any evidence or statemets in grammars?
Lavrentivs
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: Accent: quiscunque &c.

Postby adrianus » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:38 pm

http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-forum/viewtopic.php?t=14253&p=90576

There is no conclusive evidence i see to settle that.
Non est argumentum vel indicium indubitabile quod novi.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3270
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: Accent: quiscunque &c.

Postby Lavrentivs » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:34 am

Num habes quamqumque indicem -cumque esse particulum encliticum?
Lavrentivs
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: Accent: quiscunque &c.

Postby adrianus » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:44 pm

R. Whitney Tucker (1965), "Accentuation before Enclitics in Latin", Transactions and Proceedings of the American Philological Association, 96: 449-461 wrote:We must also remember that in Latin enclitics are of several different types, and that it is at least theoretically possible that these were treated differently with respect to accentuation. They may be listed as follows:

1. Inseparable enclitics, those which exist only in connection with a limited number of base-words, with no independent meaning of their own, where the resulting combination has a new and different meaning. The base-word and the enclitic may be said to have coalesced into a new word. Examples are -dam as in quidam, -dem as in Idem or quidem, -que (generalizing) as in quisque, -quis, etc. as in quisquis, -piam as in quispiam, and -cumque as in quicumque or ubicumque.

2. Separable, or movable, or optional enclitics, which may be attached at will to certain words, or to any word, when their specific meaning needs to be added. These are -que 'and,' -ve, -ne, -ce, -met and -te (as in tute), -pse and -pte, -nam, -dum. The first four of these are the classic examples usually cited by the ancient grammarians.

3. Normal words which may sometimes be used as enclitics; these are often difficult to identify, but still there are many cases where their enclitic character is unmistakable. Examples: various forms of esse and fieri, especially in the present tense; the personal and reflexive pronouns, and sometimes the demonstratives; cum; quis (as in siquis) ; per in parumper; inde as in deinde and proinde. (pp.450-1)


http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YleDNu0EglAC&pg=PA11&lpg=PA11&dq=proinde+deinde+accent&source=bl&ots=2UOmLtFbdy&sig=DVAeab5N39EV9bVc2Wk8UFSosPk&hl=en&ei=dvNkTublFcqw8gOk7L2BCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=proinde%20deinde%20accent&f=false

et

De his, Laurenti, jam tractavimus. Scio '-cumque' sic sonari posse: -'cum'que', et ego sic sono, fateor.
We discussed these before. But I could totally understand, Laurentius, pronouncing -cumque as -cum'que and I usually do myself.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3270
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Phil- and 89 guests