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Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

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Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

Postby pmda » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:42 pm

1. Primo templa adeunt, ut a dis veniam petant: multas hostias Cereri, Phoebo Liberoque immolant et ante omnes Iunoni, cui coniugia curae sunt [res mihi curae (dat) est = rem curo].

…? = coniugia (neut. nom. pl.) sunt cui (dat) curae (dat): marriages are to her care.....? Si verus est, cur 'cui' sed non 'suae': '...et ante omnes Iunoni, suae curae coniugia sunt..?

2. Sed quid sacrificia mulierem furentem iuvant?

'quid' : Interrog. Pron. Neut. Nom. Sing. 'How will sacrifices help a mad woman?...

3. Nunc per mediam urbem Aeneam secum ducit et opes suas urbemque novam ostentat. Loqui incipit - et in medio sermone consistit. Nunc novum convivium hospiti suo parat, iterumque labores Troianorum audire poscit. Postquam media nocte digressi sunt ceteri, ea sola in domo vacua maeret lectoque Aeneae relicto incumbit: illum absentem et audit et videt.

'...illum absentem et audit et videt' (in mentem suam?).

4. Aeneas autem una cum Didone venatum ire parat. Prima luce regina progreditur Poenis principibus comitata, ac simul Aeneas cum agmine Troianorum exit. Postquam in altos montes ventum est [ventum est (ab iis) : venerunt], caprae ferae de saxis desiliunt et cervi campos et valles cursu petunt.

- Orberg's explanation in square brackets [] confuses me. Does 'Ventum est' simply mean 'Venerunt' : they came into the mountains? Is it 'est' as opposed to 'sunt' for an idiomatic / idiosyncratic reason? Would a good English translation be 'after …..they were come into the mountains.... perfcet tense...?

5. Dido et dux Troianus in eandem speluncam deveniunt, ducente Iunone. Ille dies malorum reginae atque mortis prima causa fuit.

- 'reginae' : dativus est? Dative of possession? That (was) the Queen's unfortunate day and the first cause of her death. ?
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Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

Postby Qimmik » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:55 pm

1. cui is a relative pronoun whose antecedent is Iuno. It does not modify curae. This is the "double dative" construction: cui is dative of reference; curae is classified as "dative of purpose": "for whom marriages are [as] a concern." Allen & Greenough sec. 382 http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0001%3Apart%3D2%3Asection%3D9%3Asubsection%3D12%3Asmythp%3D382

2. Correct.

3. Correct (except it should be in mente sua).

4. The 3rd sing. passive forms of intransitive verbs can be used impersonally, i.e., the sense is active, not passive, but the person isn't specified: "we" or "they" or "one" or "everyone" (like French on). ventum est is perfect passive: "they came". itur in antiquam silvam "they went ['go', historical present]into an ancient forest" Aen. 6.179. itur is 3rd sing. pres. pass. of eo, used impersonally. Allen & Greenough 208d: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0001%3Asmythp%3D208

Can you identify the form of venatum?

5. Probably dative of reference, possible could be analyzed as genitive. "For the queen, that day was a day of woes and the original cause of her death." Or maybe "That ws the day of the queen's woes and the original cause of her death."
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Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

Postby pmda » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm

Thanks Quimmik. I am very grateful for your kindness and guidance.

Paul
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Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

Postby Qimmik » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:36 pm

Can you identify the form of venatum in Question No. 4?
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Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

Postby pmda » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:30 pm

Supine
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Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

Postby Qimmik » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:03 am

You get extra credit.
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Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

Postby pmda » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:46 pm

Quimmik

Just to be clear - 'curae' is dat as is 'cui'. Literally: marriage to the Care to Iuno?
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Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

Postby Qimmik » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:26 pm

The "double dative" construction involves (1) a "dative of reference" -- generally, a person, and (2) a "dative of purpose" or function, which expresses the purpose or function that the subject of the clause serves for the person expressed by the dative of reference. Iunoni, cui coniugia curae sunt "Juno, for whom marriages are a care (or concern)". In other words, "Juno, who concerns herself with marriages," ""Juno, who cares about marriages". Juno is the goddess who presides over and protects marriages.
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Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

Postby pmda » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:01 pm

Thanks.
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