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poenas ab eo recipio = is mihi poenas dat = a me punitur ?!

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poenas ab eo recipio = is mihi poenas dat = a me punitur ?!

Postby pmda » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:43 pm

Virgil translation Aeneid 648-660 Liber IV...and a question about Orberg's explanation of the line beginning ulta virum...

He explains

poenas...a fratre recepi - with [poenas ab eo recipio = is mihi poenas dat - which is fine...and then to make sure we understand it he adds (a me punitur) !!! Now maybe I'm dyslexic but it seems that he has explained 'I have received punishment from my brother' correctly meaning 'he has given me punishmet' and then in case we're not sure as meaning 'punished by me'...which is exactly the opposite of what it means. I can get a bit confused about some Latin verbs ....but surely 'a me punitur' means 'punished by me'.... what am I not getting?

In any case here's my whole translation of the passage.

I received my punishment from my brother enemy,

'hic, postquam Iliacas vestes notumque cubile
In this after she saw the Trojian garments and the

conspexit, paulum lacrimis et mente morata
familiar bed, she thought and with a few tears paused,

incubuitque toro dixitque novissima verba:
and sat in the seat and began to speak anew:

"Dulces exuviae, dum fata deusque sinebat,
Garments sweet whilst the fates and Gods allowed

accipite hanc animam meque his exsolvite curis!
Accept my spirit and free me from my cares!

Vixi et quem dederat cursum fortuna peregi
I lived and am done with the life that fortune has given me.

et nunc magna mei sub terras ibit imago.
and now my (great?) spirit will go to the underworld.

Urbem praeclarum statui, mea moenia vidi,
I built the most beautiful city, my walls I saw

ulta virum poenas inimico a fratre recepi, [poenas ab eo recipio = is mihi poenas dat (a me punitur)]
I received my punishment from my brother enemy,

felix, heu, nimium felix - si litora tantum
happiness, oh, too much happiness if only the shores had been

numquam Dardaniae tetigissent nostra carinae!"
reached by no Trojian craft.

Dixit, et os impressa toro "Moriemur inultae,
She spoke and her mouth having kissed the seat: "We shall die unavenged,

sed moriamur!" ait, "Sic, sic iuvat ire sub umbras!"
but let us die!" she said, 'This way, this way it is a delight to go into the shadows".
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Re: poenas ab eo recipio = is mihi poenas dat = a me punitur

Postby radagasty » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:25 pm

pmda wrote:poenas...a fratre recepi - with [poenas ab eo recipio = is mihi poenas dat - which is fine...and then to make sure we understand it he adds (a me punitur) !!! Now maybe I'm dyslexic but it seems that he has explained 'I have received punishment from my brother' correctly meaning 'he has given me punishmet' and then in case we're not sure as meaning 'punished by me'...which is exactly the opposite of what it means. I can get a bit confused about some Latin verbs ....but surely 'a me punitur' means 'punished by me'.... what am I not getting?

A me punitur does indeed mean 'punished by me'. Where you've gone wrong is in mistranslating the idiom poenas dare, which means not 'to give a punishment' but rather 'to pay a penalty'. Poenas a fratre recepi is accordingly 'I have exacted a penalty from a brother'.

ulta virum poenas inimico a fratre recepi
I received my punishment from my brother enemy,

You've left out ulta virum here.
Read inimico as an adjective rather than as a noun.
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Re: poenas ab eo recipio = is mihi poenas dat = a me punitur

Postby Qimmik » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:43 pm

Some suggestions:

incubuitque toro dixitque novissima verba:

"she lay down on the bed and spoke her last words" -- novissima verba means here "her last words".

accipite hanc animam meque his exsolvite curis! -- better to use demonstratives "this," "these"

Vixi et quem dederat cursum fortuna peregi "I have lived" = "my life is at an end"

imago -- "spirit" may be ok, but perhaps "shade" would be better. The idea isn't an afterlife as a spirit, but rather as an image or shade of the deceased.

ulta virum poenas inimico a fratre recepi -- "having avenged [or maybe better translated here 'avenging'] my husband, I exacted punishment from his enemy brother" You may remember that Dido's first husband Sychaeus was the wealthiest man in the Phoenician city of Tyre until his brother Pygmalion, the tyrannical ruler of Tyre, secretly killed him in order to steal his wealth. Sychaeus appeared to Dido in a dream and told her to flee Tyre, and also told her where his wealth was hidden. Dido fled with other Tyrians to Libya and founded Carthage. This is explained by Venus, who appears to her son Aeneas in the guise of a Carthaginian huntress when he has landed on the shores of Libya at Aeneid I 340-368.

felix, heu, nimium felix - si litora tantum
numquam Dardaniae tetigissent nostra carinae!
-- "[I would have been] happy, alas, too happy, if only [tantum] the Dardanian keels [i.e., ships] had never touched our shores."

Sic, sic iuvat ire sub umbras! -- iuvat is perhaps better translated "it is fitting".
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