Pronunciation of moneō

[QMord]

Wheelock's Latin says that a short o is pronounced like the o in off or orb and that a long ō is pronounced like the o in clover.

Why is moneō pronounced 'm oh nay oh' instead of 'mah nay oh' ?

[Qimmik]

Actually, if that's what Wheelock writes, he's wrong. The o vowel in English "clover" is really a diphthong with a slight w glide at the end. In Latin long ō would be pronounced as a pure o sound with no glide. And the Latin short o would probably have been pronounced with the lips more rounded than American English "off".

[citizen]

Yes, "no diphtong!", writes Ørberg too. His example is a Scottish 'go'. It's an elongated close-mid back rounded vowel (Wikipedia).

[adrianus]

According to the ancient grammarians, there is no difference in sound between long and short vowels, just the length of the sound. I think that is true. I suspect it is a habit of English-speakers to use different sounds to distinguish long and short vowels. That clipping a long, full sound seems to result in a different sound is a separate issue, related to the formation of a full sound over time. I don't think an Italian student of Latin distinguishes long and short in the manner that English speakers were taught to.

Secundum grammaticos antiquos, nullum discrimen exstat inter brevis vocalis sonum et sonum longae, solum est longitudinis vel longinquitatis discrimen. Rectè dicunt, ut opinor. Consuetudo olim erat, ut suspicor, eorum quo anglicè loquuntur ut longitudo vocalis aliter distinguatur. Longa et plena vocalis spatium temporis requirit ut ea planè sonetur, qui correpta aliter sonari videtur. Non novus autem est sonus. De sonis vocalum non itidem sonat italicus latinae linguae discipulus eius qui est anglicus vel americanus.

[Godmy]

I have made a recording.

My mother tongue actively distinguishes long a,e,i, o, u and short a,e,i,o,u and making it wrong can change the meaning... I don't see what it should be suddenly a problem with Romans in Rome in the classical period

Btw.: MP3 extension is not allowed in the attachments? A mistake... users would like to hear the pronunciation sometimes and what better lossy format there is.

[adrianus]

Non est Romanis difficultas. Modo repeto quod dicunt grammatici antiqui. Porrò, non varias modum o litterae sonandi in moneo verbo, separatim per longinquitatem, Godmy. Sonas ut dicunt grammatici antiqui, non ut dicunt qui anglicè loqui solent.

The Romans didn't have a problem. I'm just repeating what the ancient grammarians said. And I say your o's in moneo sound the same, Godmy, as indeed they should according to the grammarians, varying only in length, and not as a native English speaker is prone to saying them.

[Godmy]

Bene - forsan tē anteā male intellēxeram