question on quam

Here you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Latin, and more.
Post Reply
nostos
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 375
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:30 am
Location: Montréal, QC

question on quam

Post by nostos »

According to A&G, 'When quam is used, the two things compared are put into the same case':

matre quam patre dignior: more worthy of the mother than of the father.

But here's a case I came across in Wheelock:

fuit quondam in hac re publica tanta vitrus ut viri fortes civem perniciosum acrioribus poenis [ablative of means] quam acerbissimum hostem reprimerent: There was formerly such virtue in this republic that brave men repressed a pernicious citizen with harsher penalties than [they repressed] the harshest enemy. (Result, p. W198 SA 6 Ch. 29).

As I understand it, 'poenis' is the noun being compared with 'hostem', But they aren't in the same case. Could Wheelock be wrong or is there something I'm missing?

The alternative view I've come up with is:

viri fortes civem perniciosum acrioribus poenis quam acerbissimum hostem reprimerent: brave men repressed a nasty citizen with harsher penalties than the firecest enemy.

This seems to be that the two nouns being compared (civem and hostem) have a third noun (poenis) in between them. Is this possible?

edonnelly
Administrator
Posts: 989
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:47 am
Location: Music City, USA
Contact:

Re: question on quam

Post by edonnelly »

nostos wrote: As I understand it, 'poenis' is the noun being compared with 'hostem',
Isn't the comparison really between the two penalties, and the second 'poenis' is understood? I do not think that penalty is being compared to enemy, nor does it sound to me like citizen is being compared to enemy, it's just the two penalties being compared.

User avatar
benissimus
Global Moderator
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
Location: Berkeley, California
Contact:

Re: question on quam

Post by benissimus »

nostos wrote:fuit quondam in hac re publica tanta vitrus ut viri fortes civem perniciosum acrioribus poenis [ablative of means] quam acerbissimum hostem reprimerent: There was formerly such virtue in this republic that brave men repressed a pernicious citizen with harsher penalties than [they repressed] the harshest enemy. (Result, p. W198 SA 6 Ch. 29).
it's a more compressed and less tangled way to say "fuit quondam in hac re publica tanta uirtus ut uiri fortes ciuem perniciosum acrioribus poenis quam quibus poenis (or eis quibus etc) acerbissimum hostem reprimerent", similar to what edonnelly said. quam quibus and other combinations of words that come from relative pronouns are usually avoided if possible.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae

nostos
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 375
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:30 am
Location: Montréal, QC

Post by nostos »

yes!!!! Thanks, that's been bothering me for a long time in the back of my mind. Very compressed way of saying it (and actually quite brilliant). I still haven't gotten used to the way Latin avoids repitition.

Thanks again!

Post Reply