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Translation assistance

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Translation assistance

Postby Yaniv » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:32 am

Good evening,
I'm drawing some sketches of a new comic strip, and looking for a decent translation to the words "those about to be deported", or "those about to be exiled". The closest stem I could find was "fug", but that just doesn't seem right. Could you please help?
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Postby benissimus » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:41 am

I can tell you that a literal translation probably isn't going to be the best approach, since Latin avoids the construction "about to be". I will think upon it, perhaps someone else will have a suggestion in the mean time.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Postby Lucus Eques » Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:47 am

deportandi ought to work fine, don't you think? Either that or deportati iri.
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Postby Kasper » Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:52 am

If you were to use that construction (which you might as well, I suppose) wouldn't 'expellendi' or 'expulsuri iri' be more fitting?
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Postby Lucus Eques » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:15 am

*shrugs* The word "deportare" means "to banish from the country" or even "to banish for life," much as the English cognate.
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Postby whiteoctave » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:16 am

a gerundive such as deportandi cannot be left floating on its own in this manner. furthermore, a moment's reflection will reveal that 'men who must be deported' does not equate with 'men who are about to be deported': the situation in most European countries clearly evinces this point. for the sense demanded by messr. 'Yaniv' the verb deporto alone is not of Ciceronian extraction. expello, as suggested, is more apposite.
deportaturi iri is, for want of a better word, meaningless. why would an infinitive enter the scene like that? why would it be with an active future participle? the mind boggles. if the construction aimed at is one analogous to the (rather rare) expression of the passive infinite (i.e. supine+iri), then (ii) quos expulsum ituri sunt (sc. the banishers)' fits the bill but the idiom (ii) qui exulatum (ab)ituri sunt is both shorter and Livian.
since this construction is rather rare, however, i would avoid trying to fabricate a one/two word solution and instead opt for (ii) qui sunt exulaturi, which is the most concise. alternatives are (ii) qui iussu fugituri sunt or (ii) qui mox exules fient.

~D
Last edited by whiteoctave on Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Lucus Eques » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:41 pm

deportaturi iri is, for want of a better word, meaningless.


I couldn't agree more.

why would an infinitive enter the scene like that? why would it be with an active future participle? the mind boggles.


It does indeed. Perhaps you should read again and see that I clearly wrote deportati iri, not this "deportaturi iri" whatever.

if the construction aimed at is one analogous to the (rather rare) expression of the passive infinite (i.e. supine+iri), then (ii) qui expulsum ituri sunt fits the bill but the idiom (ii) qui exulatum (ab)ituri sunt is Livian.


qui expulsum ituri sunt would literally mean "Those who are going to go to expell." expulsum is the supine; shouldn't this word in the phrase express the passive nature of the people being deported? This sounds more like a phrase applying to the deporters rather than the deported.
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Postby whiteoctave » Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:01 pm

thanks for pointing out my misreading of deportati as deporaturi. the result is still meaningless, however: once more there is a rogue infinitive, yet this time it is with a passive participle. try as we may, a meaning for the two words cannot be found.

your point about the 'qui expulsum ituri sunt' is of course valid: having lit upon the idiomatic supine version '(ii) qui exulatum sunt ituri' the original shape of the former, which avoided the problem with '(ii) quos expulsum ituri sunt (sc. the banishers)', was corrupted.

~D
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Postby Yaniv » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:59 pm

Thank you all, really.
It might be appropriate to note that I intend to use it to replace the word "morituri" in the phrase "Ave, Caesar, morituri te salutant". Any translation that keeps the spirit, not necessarily a literal one, would be most welcome.
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Postby whiteoctave » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:15 pm

exulaturi, then, is the word for you.

~D
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Postby Yaniv » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:59 pm

Thanks.
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