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about felix with gen.

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about felix with gen.

Postby Junya » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:10 pm

Hi.
About the word felix, I can't grasp what L&S means here :
(b). With gen. (poet. and in post-Aug. prose): “Vergilius beatus felixque gratiae,” Plin. H. N. 14 praef. § “7: o te, Bolane, cerebri Felicem!” Hor. S. 1, 9, 12: “felices studiique locique,” Ov. M. 5, 267: “felix uteri,” Sil. 4, 359: “leti,” id. 4, 398: “famae,” id. 4, 731: “felices operum dies,” Verg. G. 1, 277.—


What kind of genitive is this, grammatically ?
I think I am understanding felix famae, felix uteri, dies felices operum, felix gratiae, felix loci,
but I don't understand felix leti (death), felix cerebri (anger).
Junya
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Re: about felix with gen.

Postby adrianus » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:20 pm

"O te, Bolane, cerebri felicem!"
"Oh, how tremendously hot-headed you are, Bolanus!"
[productive of/fruitful in/abundant in/full of hotheadedness]

felix leti/lethi = abundant in death, perhaps, or full of death

Junya wrote:What kind of genitive is this, grammatically ?

Maybe "Genitive of Specification" or "Objective Genitive" (for fullness) // Forsit Genetivus Designationis Specialis vel Genetivus Objectivus (cum plenitudinis sensu)
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=AG+349&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0001
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: about felix with gen.

Postby Junya » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:39 pm

Adrianus, genitive of specification would be right,
but still, the understanding of felix' meaning here is difficult.

You translate felix cerebri as full of, abundant in anger,
but the meaning productive, be abundant has, as far as I can see in L&S, only the sample sentences of fruit or grain.

But according to this meaning,
that brings good luck, of good omen, auspicious, favorable, propitious, fortunate, prosperous, felicitous

felix leti (of death), felix cerebri are difficult to understand.
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Re: about felix with gen.

Postby adrianus » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:58 pm

Junya wrote:but the meaning productive, be abundant has, as far as I can see in L&S, only the sample sentences of fruit or grain.

Of course I might well be wrong but I shouldn't think it matters poetically.
Forsit erro at poeticè id non refert, ut opinor.
OLD, de Felicis vocabulo, wrote:"Felix" 1. Fruitful, productive...d. (transf.) rich, fertile...d. "te mihi materiem felicem in carmina praebe", Ovid, Am. 1.3.19

Sic verto: "Offer yourself to me as fertile subject-matter for [/with regard to/for the sake of/for the purposes of] my verses"
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: about felix with gen.

Postby Junya » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:04 pm

Thank you. I understand.
OLD seems to explain better (and more concisely) than L&S.
L&S does not suffice.
But now I cannot buy OLD.
I don't like sencond-hand things (I am such a person as is always washing his hands, feeling as if they were dirty), and I am too poor now to think of buying an expensive book.

By the way, this felicem in carmina in OLD's sample has in + acc. instead of genitive.
Can I regard the use of genitive with felix as one of the similar options like in + acc or in + ablative or anything, not interpretting the genitive use only as genitive of specification.
Junya
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