Textkit Logo

Swearing

Here you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Latin, and more.

Swearing

Postby Keegan » Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:19 am

Some good friends of mine have been teasing me for studying Latin, a dead language, and I thought it would be funny to cuss at them in Latin next time they do so (we swear at each other enough in English, so it won't be taken personally). Does anyone know any obscenities that I could use?
Keegan
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 4:29 am

Postby Cyborg » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:40 pm

This may help you warm up (warning: foul language):
http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Latin/ ... idden.html

But if I were you I'd double check each of the words I'd choose in a dictionary, since the website mentions no source for the definitions.

You'll also find some curses in some of Catullus' poems.
User avatar
Cyborg
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:56 am

Postby William » Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:34 pm

:shock:
User avatar
William
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:16 pm
Location: Kearny, NJ 07032 • Die vereinigten Staaten

Postby annis » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:35 pm

Tsk, tsk. Poor Romans. Had to lift so much sexual vocab from the Greeks.

The standard reference for the racier corners of Latin vocabulary is The Latin Sexual Vocabulary, J.N. Adams, 1982. Martial and Catullus become clearer.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3399
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Postby Cyborg » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:03 am

annis wrote:Tsk, tsk. Poor Romans. Had to lift so much sexual vocab from the Greeks.

Wow, the Greeks must have much more foul words. Do they have worse words than irrum*** and pedic*** ? :o

Hmmm... and where did the greeks lift their from?

I don't want to drive the topic away, so...
User avatar
Cyborg
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:56 am

Postby annis » Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:23 am

Cyborg wrote:Wow, the Greeks must have much more foul words. Do they have worse words than irrum*** and pedic*** ? :o


Um. The second is Greek. And yes.

Hmmm... and where did the greeks lift their from?


Native genius. Also, vivid and creative compounds.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3399
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Postby Cyborg » Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:03 am

William wrote::shock:

eundem.
User avatar
Cyborg
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:56 am

Re: Swearing

Postby Cyborg » Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:48 pm

Keegan wrote: Does anyone know any obscenities that I could use?

If the sapientiores won't help you, maybe I could. I only know some (some of the ones used by Catullus), but I'd need permission from the moderators to list them here together with their English meanings.
User avatar
Cyborg
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:56 am

Postby bellum paxque » Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:34 am

Obviously, slang and profanity represent language at its most primal and raw -- it is unfortunate that they are often omitted from studies of foreign languages.

I am very interested in this subject. Cyborg, you might avoid the wrath of the moderators if you substitute for the plain anglo-saxon translation a more neutral word, perhaps adding a number from 1-5 indicating level of offense. For instance, "to copulate" could replace one common curse word, and "5" could indicate that it is highly offensive.

Just a suggestion. Of course, it would be preferable to present the uncensored list. For our scholarly instruction, of course.

David
bellum paxque
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 718
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:29 pm
Location: nanun Hanguge issoyo (in Korea sum)

Postby Cyborg » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:00 am

Well, I've just noticed that the words I've seen Catullus making use of are mostly already explained in the link I posted before. Far from being an expert on the subject, this is what I know so far from catullus readings:

cinaedus (he uses this a lot - i learned it as "unchaste, pervert"), moecha, pathicus, scortum.
The ones who are not listed in the given website are: cacatus ("sh**ty") and defututus ("worn out by debauchery" - he once calls a girl that).

I'm sorry I can't help more, I'm just a beginner.
User avatar
Cyborg
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:56 am

Postby benissimus » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:58 am

I hardly take issue with the writing of ancient curses written in a non-native tongue, and I doubt anyone would be offended. Chances are that if someone recognizes the meaning of the word they have already looked it up themselves and cannot reasonably fault you for knowing it. Of course many Latin words for body parts come into English, but they are usually more clinical than dirty. We have already seen some ancient naughty words used (poorly) in this very forum, on at least one occasion to very humorous effect.

Cyborg's link had a couple words that I was not familiar with, but it gave the wrong genders and gender endings to several words and I could not find a couple of the words in any of my classical dictionaries. Some are weak insults and some highly vulgar, and some are not inherently vulgar, while several others have entirely harmless alternate meanings, but here is my list... so far:

...and they aren't ALL Greek borrowings :P, comments in brackets, alternate spellings in parentheses. If you want the meanings, ask me in private.

ancillariolus, -i M.
bucco, -onis M. [mildly abusive]
caco, -are, -aui, -atum [somewhat rude]; a pearl... Martial: faciem durum, Phoebe, cacantis habes
cacaturio, -ire, -iui, -itus
cacatus, -us M.
cacatus, -a, -um
catamitus, -i (catameitus) M.
ceueo, ceuere, ceui [offensive]
choeros, -i M. [prob. rude]
cicer, ciceris N. [prob. rude]
cinaedus, -i [abusive]
cinaedulus, -i
cinaedus, -a, -um
clunis, -is C. [not rude]
colei, -orum M. [informal, perh rude]
coleatus, -a, -um
coleos habere
criso, -are
culus, -i M. [rude]
cunio, -ire [not rude]
cunnus, -i M.
cunnilingus, -i M.
cunnio, -onis M.
cunnuliggeter
follis, -is M. [rude]
futuo, futuere, futui, fututus [rude]
defututus, -a, -um
fututio, -onis F.
fututor, -oris M.
fututrix, -icis adj.
gremium, -i N.
ilia, ilium (sometimes in singular but defective) N.
irrumo, -are, -aui, -atum (irrimo) [very abusive]
irrumatio, -onis
irrumator, -oris
leno, lenonis M. what would Leno think?
lenocinium, -i N.
lenonius, -a, -um
lumbus, -i M. [not rude]
lustra, -orum (lustrum) N.
lustror, -ari, -atus sum
lutum, -i N. [abusive]
lupa, -ae F.
lupanar, -aris N.
lupatria, -ae F.
lupor, lupari
lupula, -ae F.
masturbor, -ari, -atus sum
masturbator, -oris M.
meio, meere, mi(n)xi, mi(n)ctum
mentula, -ae F. [obscene, sometimes abusive]
mentulatus, -a, -um another pearl: deus Priapo mentulatior non est
merdae, -arum (merda) F. [rude]
meretrix, -icis F.
meretricie adv.
meretricius, -a, -um
meretricula, -ae F. [derogatory]
moecha, -ae F.
moechas, moechados F.
moechimonium, -i N.
moechisso, -are
moechocinaedus, -i M.
moechor, -ari, -atus sum
moechus, -i M.
muliercula, -ae F. [abusive]
muliero, -are, -aui, -atum
mutto, -onis (muto) M.
mutinus, -a, -um (moetinus)
mutunium, -i (muttonium; mutinium) N.
mutuniatus, -a, -um
nates, -ium (natis, -is) F. [not rude]
paedico, -are, -aui, -atum (pedico) [abusive]
paedicator, -oris (pedicator) M.
paedico, -onis (pedico) M.
pallaca, -ae F.
paelex, -icis (pelex; pellex) F. [post-classical]
pathicus, -a, -um [abusive]
pedem/pedes tollere
pedo, pedere, pepedi, peditum [probably not very offensive]
penis, -is M.
prurio, -ire
prurigo, -ginis F.
pudenda, -orum N. (also pars pudenda)
pullus, -i M.
scortum, -i N.
scortillum, -i N.
scortor, -ari, -atus sum
scrotum, -i N.
sopio, -onis M. [rude]
testis, -is M. Pliny: quod amas amato testibus praesentibus
testiculus, -i M.
uagina, -ae F.
uerpus, -a, -um
uerpa, -ae F.
uomer, uomeris M.
Last edited by benissimus on Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:33 am, edited 8 times in total.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
User avatar
benissimus
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Postby amans » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:43 am

Impressive list, bennissime!!! :D You're, like, shall we say... a collector? ;) Some of the words need to be wound up in phrases to make good insults, I think . . .

But I reckon this thread is evolving into a discussion of "foul" language in general... inter urinam et faeces nascimur ;)

Perhaps Keegan could use this one:

pleni stercoris estis

Cheers to all.
amans
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:12 pm

Postby Cyborg » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:28 pm

benissimus wrote:Cyborg's link had a couple words that I was not familiar with, but it gave the wrong genders and gender endings to several words and I could not find a couple of the words in any of my classical dictionaries. Some are weak insults and some highly vulgar, and some are not inherently vulgar, while several others have entirely harmless alternate meanings, but here is my list... so far:

Yes, that's why I recommended double-checking each word before calling someone a pathicus. :)

Wow, that's a big list, ruberent quique uultuum romanorum.
User avatar
Cyborg
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:56 am

Postby Cyborg » Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:40 pm

Thanks for the whole list, benissime!

benissimus wrote:pedo, pedere, pedi [probably not very offensive]

Interesting. L&S (click) and two dictionaries of mine say it is pedo, pedere, pepedi, peditum.
User avatar
Cyborg
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:56 am

Postby jotapianus » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:13 am

How juvenile - This nonsense explains your previous post
jotapianus
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:43 am

Postby benissimus » Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:54 am

nonne loqueris umquam, jotapiane, clementer? quod maius - possisne loqui latine?
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
User avatar
benissimus
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Postby Lucus Eques » Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:30 am

Vero; semper alios nobiscum latine loqui quaerimus; si ut Benissimus dixit te efficis ut simul bisue clementer loqui, alium inter nos habere nos certe delectet.
L. Amadeus Ranierius

SCORPIO·MARTIANVS
User avatar
Lucus Eques
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 2003
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:52 pm
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Postby bellum paxque » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:58 pm

I certainly intend to store this list on my computer. No doubt, I will find it useful. . . in a variety of ways. If only the translations were conveniently included. I suspect that many of the more reputable dictionaries will translate such words delicately, to say the least.

David

PS - And what is juvenile about wanting to know a language in and out? I am interested in Latin as it was spoken domi as well as in libro.
bellum paxque
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 718
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:29 pm
Location: nanun Hanguge issoyo (in Korea sum)

Postby Cyborg » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:51 am

bellum paxque wrote:If only the translations were conveniently included.

benissimus wrote:If you want the meanings, ask me in private.
User avatar
Cyborg
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:56 am

Postby amans » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:17 pm

bellum paxque wrote:I certainly intend to store this list on my computer. No doubt, I will find it useful. . . in a variety of ways.


I like that! :lol:

If only the translations were conveniently included. I suspect that many of the more reputable dictionaries will translate such words delicately, to say the least.


True! How about this from Lewis & Short

paedico (pedico , Auct. Priap. 68 ), are, v. a. [[face=spionic]paidiko/j[/face]],
I. to practise unnatural vice.
I. Lit.: amores, Cat. 21, 4 : puerum, Mart. 11, 94, 6 .--Of various forms of unnatural lewdness, Mart. 11, 104, 17; id. 7, 67, 1. --
II. Transf., of the tunic, Mart. 11, 99, 2.


"various forms of lewdness" . . . The Greeks, cf. the reference, did not find this unnatural, did they?

PS - And what is juvenile about wanting to know a language in and out? I am interested in Latin as it was spoken domi as well as in libro.


I agree completely.
amans
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:12 pm

Postby benissimus » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:31 am

Cyborg wrote:Thanks for the whole list, benissime!

benissimus wrote:pedo, pedere, pedi [probably not very offensive]

Interesting. L&S (click) and two dictionaries of mine say it is pedo, pedere, pepedi, peditum.

You are right about pedi, I am not sure why I wrote that.

If only the translations were conveniently included.

I will gladly PM them to you alongside the words if you ask, but I won't talk dirty to you or anyone else unless they want me to.
Last edited by benissimus on Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
User avatar
benissimus
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Postby Cyborg » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:30 am

hahahaha. :wink:
User avatar
Cyborg
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:56 am

Postby Episcopus » Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:51 am

Steven, what would be the most accurate rendering of fannyflappeur ?

Multos ad tu gratias

Episcopo
phpbb
User avatar
Episcopus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 2563
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 8:57 pm

Postby amans » Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:31 pm

Episcopus wrote:Steven, what would be the most accurate rendering of fannyflappeur ?


culipalpator
amans
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:12 pm

TR P II COS IIII

Postby Mercurialis » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:30 pm

Before deciding to seek re-election, The West Wing's President Jed Bartlet rants in the National Cathedral over the death of his assistant, Dolores Landingham:
"Gratias tibi ago, domine. Haec credam a deo pio? A deo iusto, a deo scito? Cruciatus in crucem. Tuus in terra servus, nuntius fui. Officium perfeci. Cruciatus in crucem. Eas in crucem!"
phpbb
Mercurialis
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:57 pm
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan

Postby Episcopus » Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:22 pm

I am not denying that I am more juvenile than any one here, but I have to side with jotapianus on this one. The only thing worse than dog latin is dog latin penibus ornata. Funny though this may be, I am sure that every one here strives to improve the quality of their latin, which can be accomplished by thorough study of A&G, rather than spending this time learning how to call some one a pooface in latin. Take a look in the mirror every one. Be honest with yourselves - do you hear that? Woof woof. Be productive, complete a prose composition available from textkit instead of PMing our unworthy moderator for the meanings of his silly list, take off your collars, rip down that Minimus bonus mus est and learn something please. benissimus' bizarre efforts remind me of one friend long ago who used to write Käseglockende all over my german book, and I would always give retorts as immature as ben's list above; this was a long time ago, thankfully I have grown up. I suggest you all do the same.
phpbb
User avatar
Episcopus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 2563
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 8:57 pm

Postby sisyphus » Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:58 pm

paedico ... various forms of unnatural lewdness


Omigods. Not "unnatural lewdness"! That's disgusting. How could you publish such a thing? You should all have your knackers removed, forthwith.

And as for all those 'f' and 'c' words, oh, and the 'i', 'l', 'g', oh! and my goodness, those 'm' and 'p' words ... those letters should be removed from the alphabet. They offendeth me sorely.

i have to confess to incomprehension when it comes to taboo. Surely there is nothing obscene about any language, only the degenerate social attitudes that objections to it reflect.

To take an example: consider the Victorian objection to the visibility of womens legs or ankles. The extremities to which this was taken meant that piano and table legs had to be draped (it's common to find a line of tack marks on pianos, where the drapery was attached). Which is the unhealthy item in this domestic entertainment tableau? Is it a) womens ankles, or b) the minds of people who think womens ankles are obscene?
sisyphus
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:40 pm
Location: Blighty.

Postby bellum paxque » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:06 am

Episcope, while I understand and respect your criticism of this post, I would suggest that there are multiple reasons why one might want to acquire a list of Latin curse words. Of course, I can not honestly claim that I have never felt the juvenile thrill of rendering English taboos in another language. Certainly, one should be aware that the wanton urge to scribble Latin curse words on paper is not far removed from the urge to scribble English curse words on bathroom walls. However, as I said, there are other motivations which, in my opinion, are far more compelling for those on this board who asked benissimus for his list. For one, it is simply practical to have accurate translations of words that appear in Catullus and other poets. "Respectable" dictionaries - at least conservative ones - might be prone to render these words in euphemisms.

But let us be honest: swear words are not used because of their literal meaning (or at least not only because of that), but rather because of the emotional punch they deliver. For me to say, "F*** you" obviously conveys little direct sense. If a Martian looked up "f***" in the dictionary and discovered that it meant "to copulate," of course he would be quite confused. Dirty words, though no doubt etymologically connected with their root meaning, have earned their power (and penalty) through time and culture. The difference between "copulate" and its counterpart is the emotion communicated.

Therefore, failing to learn the swear words of a language robs one of an important means of communication. Certainly swearing is less dignified and witty than maintaing purely rational discourse. Sermo autem ratione gestus satis utilis non semper est. (Which should say, "But conversation conducted by reason is not always useful enough.")

Surely there is nothing obscene about any language, only the degenerate social attitudes that objections to it reflect.


While I would not fully endorse sisyphus' opinion, I do agree that language per se cannot be wicked. Are sounds wicked, after all? Are meanings of words? Again, let us consider the literal import of "excrement" and a less polite alternative. There is patently NO difference, aside from the one that counts, which is the emotional one (and perhaps other considerations which obtain, such as level of formality).

Obviously, language when used imprudently can annoy or even seriously injure people; thus swear words are like knives - sharp, effective, and requiring caution, as they can quickly yield gushing arteries. But their inherent danger does not mean that they cannot be used effectively, or at least appreciated for their emotional impact. To rob a language of its curse words is effectively to geld it, making it soft, effeminate, and impotent, no matter how even-tempered and elegant it may be.

Amabo vos, mihi parcite propter magnum studium, quod me fecit scribere nimium audaciter haec. Si ea falsa esse putabitis, nihil irae habebo; si ea vera esse putabitis, nihil gloriae capiam.

Ob patientiam multas gratias vobis!

David (cui dormiendum est!)
bellum paxque
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 718
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:29 pm
Location: nanun Hanguge issoyo (in Korea sum)

Postby Lucus Eques » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:51 am

Immo gloriam cape! Macte, David! logicissime ac clarissime scripsisti; ita censeo ipse quoque.
L. Amadeus Ranierius

SCORPIO·MARTIANVS
User avatar
Lucus Eques
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 2003
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:52 pm
Location: Tucson, Arizona


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: hlawson38 and 79 guests