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paulum auxilii

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paulum auxilii

Postby amans » Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:48 pm

saluete omnes

1) Can the 1st supine have a direct object? I want to say:

"Your poor little thing!" the old poet said and went to open the door.

"te paruum miserum!" poeta senex dixit et iuit apertum ianuam

2) How would you say "redden" when speaking of cheeks? I don't mean as a sign of shame, but of good health.

uobis gratias ago
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Re: paulum auxilii

Postby benissimus » Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:16 pm

amans wrote:saluete omnes

et tu

1) Can the 1st supine have a direct object? I want to say:

"Your poor little thing!" the old poet said and went to open the door.

"te paruum miserum!" poeta senex dixit et iuit apertum ianuam

well I'm not sure paruum would be used in an affectionate diminutive sense (perhaps misellum?), but the accusative supine can certainly take an object.

2) How would you say "redden" when speaking of cheeks? I don't mean as a sign of shame, but of good health.

rubeo, -ere ... if you say genae eius rubebant, it's likely to be interpreted that the person is blushing. I don't know any way around that in Latin or in English other than context and further explanation. there is also the possibility of a periphrastic with ruber, -bra, -brum.

uobis gratias ago

still haven't figured out how to answer that :cry:
Last edited by benissimus on Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Re: paulum auxilii

Postby Cyborg » Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:15 pm

benissimus wrote:well I'm not sure paruum would be used in an affectionate diminutive sense (perhaps misellum?), but the accusative supine can certainly take an object.

As benissimus suggested, "misellum" seems (to me) to carry the diminutive sense on itself (on "ill"). Catullus uses it when talking about the girl's poor little (dead) sparrow in "o miselle passer". benissimus left that out so the second one to answer could complement to him - you're so humble, benissime :).

benissimus wrote:rubeo, -ere ... if you say genae eius rubebant, it's likely to be interpreted that the person is blushing. I don't know any way around that in Latin or in English other than context and further explanation.

"rubeo" seems to me like the perfect verb for this. We still use it in Portuguese (slightly altered) almost nothing for but to talk about cheeks.

benissimus wrote:
amans wrote:uobis gratias ago

still haven't figured out how to answer that :cry:

Have you not? It's easy, I'll show you: "you're welcome" :D
I'm kidding. Once I understand fully what does this way of saying "thank you" really means, I'll try to come up with a way to say "you're welcome" - there are several different ways in Portuguese, maybe one could be well translated to Latin.
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Postby amans » Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:41 pm

oh, Cyborg beat me to it, -- thanks for your post, Cyborg -- but I'll post this anyway :)

iucunde benissime

thanks a lot

benissimus wrote:well I'm not sure paruum would be used in an affectionate diminutive sense (perhaps misellum?), but the accusative supine can certainly take an object.


I even got more than I asked for :)

I think misellus is a very good suggestion: perhaps Catullus came to your mind? (o factum male! o miselle passer!)

benissimus wrote:rubeo, -ere ... if you say genae eius rubebant, it's likely to be interpreted that the person is blushing. I don't know any way around that in Latin or in English other than context and further explanation. there is also the possibility of a periphrastic with ruber, -era, -erum.


Perhaps an easy way out, then, is cum sanitate or cum valetudine - they reddened with health... Otherwise, one might opt for something which is generally considered a sign of good health to a Roman. Any ideas? Perhaps a certain attitude or posture or...? I am doing a translation and I reckon the aim of that is to get a message across: the question being, of course, whether I should aim for making myself and my use of the Latin language understood to a Roman of antiquity or to one of my of contemporaries...
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Postby benissimus » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:10 pm

amans wrote:I think misellus is a very good suggestion: perhaps Catullus came to your mind? (o factum male! o miselle passer!)

why yes, I was actually thinking about Catullus. there really aren't too many authors who use this word, but at least such Romantic heroes as Cicero and Catullus did in their informal writings.

Perhaps an easy way out, then, is cum sanitate or cum valetudine - they reddened with health... Otherwise, one might opt for something which is generally considered a sign of good health to a Roman. Any ideas? Perhaps a certain attitude or posture or...? I am doing a translation and I reckon the aim of that is to get a message across: the question being, of course, whether I should aim for making myself and my use of the Latin language understood to a Roman of antiquity or to one of my of contemporaries...

I am sure you will find a solution, you are rarely one to have questions in Latin. ablative of manner, I agree, is the easiest and most obvious choice.

I am almost certain that my old Latin teacher mentioned the lips of a deity (Zeus, I think) being described as purple to indicate his good health, but if the word used was purpureus as I suspect then it wouldn't really be purple but crimson. I can't find this passage anywhere though, so I can't be certain that it is indeed, a genuine Roman sentiment. other than that, I can't think of any signs of good health peculiar to Romans (though I am sure there are some), but they probably shared at least the most obvious with us. it is also important to remember that while Romans were united by government and civil matters, customs and superstition varied across territories. while a red face might mean robustness to a Gaul, perhaps it meant a hot temper to an Italian, etc.
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