homework - 5 sentences

Cyborg · Post by **Cyborg** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:36 pm

I just want to know if they're OK. Thank you

.

(livia is the second of 8 females students, lucius the first of 19 male students.)
liuia secunda ex octo discipulis est, lucius primus ex undeuiginti discipulis.

(julia has already been the student of 3 teachers.)
iulia discipula trium magistrarum iam fuit.

(the teacher dictated us 3 proverbs: the first one is very hard, the second and the third are easier.)
magister tria prouerbia nos dictauit: primum difficillimum est, secundum tertiumque facilius sunt.

(tomorrow we weill study the 35º lecture.)
cras tricesimam quintam lectionem discemus.

(in the beginning rome was a humble village. its inhabitants were poor shepherds. remus mocked the new city. his foolish words irritated (his) brother greatly.)
principio roma humilis uicus erat. suus incolae pastores pauperes erant. remus nouam ciuitatem derisit. suas uerba imprudentes fratrem ualde irritauit.

amans · Post by **amans** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:26 pm

s.m. Cyborg dico

They look good and correct to me - a few minor problems, though. So here are my thoughts...

1. You might omit the ex - the ablative could perhaps do on its own, but it is, no doubt about it, fine as it is.

2. Fine, too. You might consider a dative instead of the genitive you use: a student to three teachers...? It depends on your interpration of the sentence.

3. Oops. You didn't mean to say nos, did you?

Try again. Also consider facilius... it goes with sunt which is plural...

4. Good.

5. You need suus to correspond with the inhabitants, not Rome. It is a possesive adjective (there's one more form of suus later). I agree with your word choice for 'city'. But have a second look at imprudentes...

uale

Cyborg · Post by **Cyborg** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:47 pm

1. Good tip, I love ablatives-on-their-own

2. Yes, it sounds like a good idea.
3. Oh, no no no no no. magister tria prouerbia nobis dictauit: primum difficillimum est, secundum tertiumque facilii sunt. Not "nos", "nobis"! Shame on me! I'll write that sentence up 200 times.

5. sui incolae! Hmm, actually I think my english is the wrong part here. I meant "his ignorant words". Plus, that's the word ("imprudens") my book suggested me to use. What do you think would be better?

minor mistakes passed me by. ero sedulior. thanks!

amans · Post by **amans** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:42 pm

hi again, Cyborg

3. Good, you got the dative! bonam spem de te concipio Now consider the adjective we talked about. You have two proverbs, prouerbia, and you want to say they are easier. Easy is facilis - the neuter is facile. But you want comparatives, so you get facilior - and the neuter: facilius. So far so good. But you want a plural of that... can you figure out the plural of facilius - remember this is a 3rd declension adjective, so the answer is not facilii... (tip: look at its masculine counterpart and think about typical plural neuters...)

5. imprudens is a fine word, but imprudentes is masculine or feminine, whereas uerba is a neuter. imprudens is actually a participile (im-providens: not-foreseeing) - perhaps you can find a paradigm of the participles to see the neuter in plural?

best wishes

Cyborg · Post by **Cyborg** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:18 pm

3. argh, sorry, that "ius" in "facilius" disturbed my attention. Ok, so I look at the masculine and see faciliores, but I want the neuter so I take away "es" and put in "a", right? I can't say "facilioria" because I know I don't write "faciliorium", so what I want is "faciliora". I won't make this same mistake in the future, I promise.

5. Oh! I see. and seeing that I think I've got the "suas" wrong too. or is it? I think I have trouble with which word do I have to match the possessives adjectives. Would it be "sua uerba imprudentia fratrem ualde irritauit." ?

I hope I have everything right now. Thanks!

benissimus · Post by **benissimus** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:45 am

Cyborg wrote:3. argh, sorry, that "ius" in "facilius" disturbed my attention. Ok, so I look at the masculine and see faciliores, but I want the neuter so I take away "es" and put in "a", right? I can't say "facilioria" because I know I don't write "faciliorium", so what I want is "faciliora". I won't make this same mistake in the future, I promise.

5. Oh! I see. and seeing that I think I've got the "suas" wrong too. or is it? I think I have trouble with which word do I have to match the possessives adjectives. Would it be "sua uerba imprudentia fratrem ualde irritauit." ?

I hope I have everything right now. Thanks!

Hi Cyborg. You seem to be misusing the reflexive possessive adjective in the last sentence. In the sentence "his foolish words irritated (his) brother greatly.", the subject is "foolish words", so the verb needs to plural. The subject is "words", remember that the reflexive denotes ownership by the subject of the sentence. A simple eius or illius (maybe even a pejorative istius) would suffice, but saying sua uerba fratrem irritauerunt does not mean what you want it to because uerba is the subject... your use of the reflexive means that it belongs to the subject, which does not make sense.

There is an exception to the rule that the reflexive points to the subject of the sentence: sometimes it merely denotes a possessive relationship where the subject is possessed by another noun in the sentence (a reverse reflexive if you will), so in your sentence a reader would assume that sua refers to fratrem, meaning "his own (the brother's) words irritated him (the same brother)".

Cyborg · Post by **Cyborg** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:53 am

Hi, benissimus. I understand what you said, but my book hasn't yet taught demonstrative pronouns, so I can only use personal pronouns, and I need to say "his (remus') foolish words irritated (his) brother greatly.

So by now I have "? uerba imprudentia fratrem ualde irritauerunt."
Would that "?" be "suus" again, matching "remus"?

benissimus · Post by **benissimus** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:58 am

It doesn't take much from the meaning to omit the possessive, but it would be incorrect to use suus, -a, -um here. Latin lacks a true third person pronoun, so until you know the demonstrative it will be difficult to express possession without actually giving the noun in the genitive. suus is only for special circumstances, it is not a generic third person possessive as in, say, Spanish.

Cyborg · Post by **Cyborg** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:03 am

I get it now. Thanks for the explanation, specially the last phrase; it cleared things up.

So it is "eius uerba imprudentia fratrem ualde irritauerunt.", with "eius" matching "remus".

benissimus · Post by **benissimus** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:08 am

Cyborg wrote:So it is "eius uerba imprudentia fratrem ualde irritauerunt.", with "eius" matching "remus".

That is perfect. eius "his, her, its, of him/her/it" is actually a pronoun in the genitive that replaces Remi. eius is both the masculine, feminine, and neuter genitive of the pronoun is, ea, id. It may be worth remembering for you that eius means "his/her/its" so you don't have to wait until you learn demonstratives, but also keep in mind that it is often omitted if the ownership is apparent.

Cyborg · Post by **Cyborg** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:37 pm

Got it, thanks. It's just two more chapters before I get to the demonstrative pronouns.