Textkit Logo

Enclitics

Here you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Latin, and more.

Enclitics

Postby Cyborg » Thu May 26, 2005 11:07 pm

I've got a list of enclitics from a book available here (bennett's "a latin grammar") and this is it:

-que, -ne, -ue, -ce, -met, -dum, -cum

I've searched these fora and the web, and got no explanations except for the -que and -ne particles, and loosely for the -ue. could someone show me examples using each one of those enclitics, and explain their functions to me?
User avatar
Cyborg
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:56 am

Re: Enclitics

Postby Kasper » Fri May 27, 2005 1:51 am

Cyborg wrote:I've got a list of enclitics from a book available here (bennett's "a latin grammar") and this is it:

-que, -ne, -ue, -ce, -met, -dum, -cum

I've searched these fora and the web, and got no explanations except for the -que and -ne particles, and loosely for the -ue. could someone show me examples using each one of those enclitics, and explain their functions to me?


-que stuck to the end of a word means "and": vir feminaque = a man and a woman.

-ue stuck to the end of word means "or": vir feminaue = a man or a woman

-ne means "and not / nor /neither"

-ce (sorry I've never seen this one)

- met emphasizes the word, I think this only goes with pronouns: "egomet" = I myself

- dum means "while" and often is attached to a word like "nec" - necdum = and not yet/while

- cum means "with" and can be enclitic "mecum" = with me, "tecum" = with you.

Hope that was some help - wait for the experts for more grammatical explanation!! :lol:
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
Kasper
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:01 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: Enclitics

Postby benissimus » Fri May 27, 2005 2:04 am

Kasper wrote:-ne means "and not / nor /neither"

-ne does not mean this, it simply makes the statement interrogative.

-ce is an emphatic used with the demonstratives ille, iste, and hic, but the final E is often dropped. In the case of hic, it has become inseparable from many of the forms. It was originally found with other words, such as tunc (tum+ce) and nunc (*nun+ce), in which case the original unemphasized form vanished.

-met is used with certain forms of the personal pronouns and less often to the possessive adjectives.

-cum is often suffixed to the ablative singular and plural of the personal and relative pronouns.

-dum seems to me a stretch to call enclitic, but whatever.
Last edited by benissimus on Fri May 27, 2005 2:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
User avatar
benissimus
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Re: Enclitics

Postby Kasper » Fri May 27, 2005 2:05 am

benissimus wrote:
Kasper wrote:-ne means "and not / nor /neither"

-ne does not mean this, it simply makes the statement interrogative.


Hmm, true... I was thinking about "necne".
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
Kasper
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:01 am
Location: Melbourne

Postby whiteoctave » Fri May 27, 2005 6:51 am

-ce, later -c, only becomes 'emphatic' by dint of its origin as a deictic marker. as well as being enclitic there are relics of its being proclitic, e.g. cette, cedo. it is very productive in terms of its use with demonstratives.

-met can also be used with ipse.

-whatever one's view on the u/v controversy, i.e. whether one is correct or wrong, writing 'vir feminaeue' is impossible.

-cum originates from an anastrophic use and can also be used with relative pronouns.

-right, -dum is not an enclitic at all.


~D
phpbb
User avatar
whiteoctave
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:42 pm
Location: Cambridge

Postby Cyborg » Sat May 28, 2005 12:27 am

thanks for the explanations.

so I can use -que and -ue with any word I like, -met with only the cited personal pronouns, possessive adjectives and ipse, and -cum with only personal and relative pronouns?

and -ce seems to me like there's not enough freedom to use it. It seems it already attached itself to the allowed words... is it so?

so the "free for use" enclitics are, really:
-que, -ue, -ne?
I wish I could include -cum here... it seems like a very useful enclitic. oh well. :)
User avatar
Cyborg
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:56 am

Postby Episcopus » Sat May 28, 2005 4:02 pm

Did you lads know that whiteoctave uses cum postpositionally 2.55% of the time?
phpbb
User avatar
Episcopus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 2563
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 8:57 pm

Postby Kasper » Sun May 29, 2005 10:38 pm

whiteoctave wrote:-whatever one's view on the u/v controversy, i.e. whether one is correct or wrong, writing 'vir feminaeue' is impossible.

~D


:lol: I'm used to writing v but then took ue from Cyborg's initial post!
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
Kasper
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:01 am
Location: Melbourne

Postby benissimus » Mon May 30, 2005 3:10 am

Cyborg wrote:so the "free for use" enclitics are, really:
-que, -ue, -ne?

yes

Episcopus wrote:Did you lads know that whiteoctave uses cum postpositionally 2.55% of the time?

no!
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
User avatar
benissimus
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
Location: Berkeley, California


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jandar and 86 guests