I see that one possible translation of "on account of" is propter, and another translation is ex.
The thing is, propter takes the accusative whereas ex takes the ablative.
What is the difference in how they are used? Up to this point I have been using ex as in "out of [a house]" and propter as "on account of" or "because of".
On account of
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Those are certainly the most common uses.What is the difference in how they are used? Up to this point I have been using ex as in "out of [a house]" and propter as "on account of" or "because of".
I think that you should get used to the fact that there are often many, many ways of expressing a notion in Latin. To take your idea of causation or motive, we can have:
*ex + abl.
*propter + acc.
*plain ablative (e.g. odio humani generis)
*ob + acc.
*causa + gerundive genitive
*cum + subjunctive (adverbial clause here rather than a noun)
*(ideo/idcirco/propterea/eo) quod/quia/quoniam
*quando/si quando/quandoquidem (these last two lines being followed of course by adverbial clauses)
*use of a participle
*use of an ablative absolute
*use of a relative clause with the subjunctive (e.g. Amant te omnes mulieres qui sis tam pulcher), using qui, ut qui, utpote qui, quippe qui
That's eleven ways to express causation in Latin. I'm sure there are a couple of others
It doesn't necessarily mean there is any distinction in meaning between any of these (although many of them are syntactically quite different).
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I hope you won't mind me adding my own favorite way of expressing cause:
ergo with the genitive gerund/ive (the gerund/ive usually precedes ergo just like with causa and gratia).
Of course there are differences between all of these constructions, but they're mainly one of tone or style rather than strict semantics.
For example, that construction of ergo would sound a bit archaizing or poetic even to Cicero.
With ex and the ablative I think you're mostly talking about a progression from cause to effect:
ex nausea vomitus (Celsus, 4.5)
ex vulnere aeger (Cic. Rep. 2.21)
Whereas with many of the other constructions (e.g. causa with the gen.), you're talking about the reason held in mind, or perhaps the thing hoping to be attained. These can be two rather different ideas of causation. When in doubt, check the dictionary.
ergo with the genitive gerund/ive (the gerund/ive usually precedes ergo just like with causa and gratia).
Of course there are differences between all of these constructions, but they're mainly one of tone or style rather than strict semantics.
For example, that construction of ergo would sound a bit archaizing or poetic even to Cicero.
With ex and the ablative I think you're mostly talking about a progression from cause to effect:
ex nausea vomitus (Celsus, 4.5)
ex vulnere aeger (Cic. Rep. 2.21)
Whereas with many of the other constructions (e.g. causa with the gen.), you're talking about the reason held in mind, or perhaps the thing hoping to be attained. These can be two rather different ideas of causation. When in doubt, check the dictionary.
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odio humani generis - its funny you should mention this. As a side thought, a lot of theories has been circuling around this phrase, as I understand it, and still stand by it, meaning "on account of their hatred of the human race." However, this being the minority reading from Tacitus, what do you all think?
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I believe this issue was briefly raised on another boardodio humani generis - its funny you should mention this. As a side thought, a lot of theories has been circuling around this phrase, as I understand it, and still stand by it, meaning "on account of their hatred of the human race." However, this being the minority reading from Tacitus, what do you all think?
The syntax could not be more ambiguous. Generis could be either an objective or subjective genitive. On account of hatred of the human race could really mean anything. Studies of whether Tacitus uses objective or subjective genitives more aren't going to prove the issue one way or another. If we want to find out what Tacitus meant, I suppose the researchers most likely to provide us with an answer are those who are examining Roman attitudes to Christianity.
Last edited by Turpissimus on Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Clearly Tacitus is contrasting two different thing here. Is it that Tacitus wants to downplay the supposed reason for the executions and draw attention to the disordered state in Rome, painting Nero as a cowardly despot, or is it that he wants to contrast two possible grounds for despising the "depraved" Christians, one acceptable, the other more bloodthirsty and marked by the people's intemperate brutality?deinde indicio eorum multitudo ingens haud proinde in crimine incendii quam odio humani generis convicti sunt.
Hmmm. Genuinely difficult passage to interpret.