I'm somewhat confused on which to use when. I thought an ablative absolute was used when the action was not related to rest of the sentence but precedes it; and that cum with subjunctive was used either when there is a sentence that sort of takes the place of an ablative absolute but is too long for an abl. abs. or when this action, unconnected to the rest of the sentence occurred at the same time as the rest of the sentence. I hope that made sense.
In N&H is the sentence:
As the people of Veii often made incursions for the sake of plunder, the Romans were scarcely able to defend their own territories.
I thought this required a cum plus subjuncive structure:
cum veientes saepe causa praedae incursiones facerent Romani vix fines suorum defendere poterant
But N&H provides:
Veientibus incursiones praedae causa factibus Romani vix fines suorum defendere poterant.
Is my sentence wrong, or are they both right?
cum vs ablative absolute
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Kasper
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cum vs ablative absolute
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Kasper
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Quid? Ubi est responsum tuum, moderator? 
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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benissimus
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Kasper
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Somniens moderator, putavi somnum non esse moderatoris. 
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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benissimus
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Re: cum vs ablative absolute
What in gods' name is factibus?Kasper wrote:But N&H provides:
Veientibus incursiones praedae causa factibus Romani vix fines suorum defendere poterant.
Is my sentence wrong, or are they both right?
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Kasper
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Hmm... I must admit I missed that one actually.Kasper wrote:
But N&H provides:
Veientibus incursiones praedae causa factibus Romani vix fines suorum defendere poterant.
Is my sentence wrong, or are they both right?
What in gods' name is factibus?
Skylax, should I have used causa with a genitive gerund? I've notice Caesar ipse is quite fond of those.
As for the general principle, is there a certain rule (be it perhaps informal) which sets when to used abl. abs. or a cum clause or is it upto the writer?
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Skylax
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praedandi causa (from PRAEDARI) would indeed be good Caesarian LatinKasper wrote: Skylax, should I have used causa with a genitive gerund? I've notice Caesar ipse is quite fond of those.
I feel Abl. abs. is used when this phrase is not to big, with not too much complements, otherwise CUM clause, which can be massive, with other subordinate clauses depending on it.As for the general principle, is there a certain rule (be it perhaps informal) which sets when to used abl. abs. or a cum clause or is it upto the writer?
VALE