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Grammatical question

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Grammatical question

Postby Aurelia » Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:08 am

When I say "I have to go" in Latin, since I'm a female should I say "opa est mihi discedenda" or "opus est mihi discedenda." Is "discedenda" even right? I really need to brush up on my gerunds and gerundives!

Also, when I say "I am worried/annoyed" should I use "vexo" or "vexar" because "I am worried" is the same as "I worry."
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Postby Lucus Eques » Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:03 am

I'd love to be clarified on the former myself, Aurelia. I'm not quite sure. I guess males have the advantage of speaking without as many complications of grammar to worry about. ;)

And as for worrying, I think vexar makes the most sense, for both English translations. Vexo would imply that you are annoying someone, that you are disturbing someone. Vexar, of course, is you being bothered or disturbed or worried by someone or something else.
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Postby Titus Marius Crispus » Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:39 am

When I say "I have to go" in Latin, since I'm a female should I say "opa est mihi discedenda" or "opus est mihi discedenda." Is "discedenda" even right? I really need to brush up on my gerunds and gerundives!


I'm not familiar with that "opus est" construction. I would think that would more commonly be used in statements of need (we need books, etc.). However, opus is a noun and will never be opa. Nouns don't change gender like that. 'discedenda' would need to agree with opus, which is neuter. So 'discedendum'.

I would use something like "necesse est mihi egredi" instead.
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Postby benissimus » Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:54 am

I don't see why you would say opus est mihi discedendum. This literally translates to something like ''the need must be departed by me'', if discedo is even transitive. I would think the phrase would be better said opus est mihi discedendo (discedendi) ''there is need to me of leaving'' or even opus est mihi discedere ''there is need for me to leave''. I agree with Titus on the matter of gender, though there may have been some confusion as to what the gerundive was modifying so I can't blame you there. That is my two cents on the phrase anyway.
Last edited by benissimus on Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby ingrid70 » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:37 am

according to my grammar, opus est takes either a noun in the ablative or an infinitive/aci; no mention of using a gerundive with it.

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Postby ptran » Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:18 pm

Let's also not overlook the use of "debeo" with the infinitive to express necessity or obligation. The idiom "opus est" is use with a dative and infinitive, accusative and infinitive, or (rare) the genitve of the thing needed but usually only when that thing is a neuter singular noun. There are a few ways to express the necessity of an action in Latin, and some of them are the impersonal construction like "opus est".

oportet ( +inf.)
necesse est (+inf.)
opus est (+ varia)
debeo (+inf.)
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Postby Aurelia » Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:09 pm

Okay, I think I will use "debeo discedere." I haven't studied impersonal verbs in a while, maybe I should get my notes out. :wink:
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Postby Iacobus Mathematicus » Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:52 pm

Aurelia wrote:Okay, I think I will use "debeo discedere." I haven't studied impersonal verbs in a while, maybe I should get my notes out. :wink:


One other thing to consider, according to Bradley's Arnold anyway, is that the debeo construction is to be used when the obligation is to others, while oportet implies the obligation is binding on one's own self.

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Postby Aurelia » Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:59 pm

okay then what should I use? opus est mihi...discedere?
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Postby Titus Marius Crispus » Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:25 am

According to what Iacobus said, it seems like 'oportet mihi discedere' would be better.

Discedere is transitive, by the way, as it can also mean to part or separate.
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