Textkit Logo

real text, not pdf

Here's where you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Moderator: thesaurus

real text, not pdf

Postby aurelianus » Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:55 pm

I've been trying to find Latin grammars on the Internet, and I was very happy when I stumbled across TextKit. But I find those PDF books a bit hard to decypher sometimes. So I decided to begin transcribing one of the Latin grammar books on your site into HTML. I don't suppose there's anything illegal about that, but it may be a little tedious. Nevertheless, it will be a grat way to improve my poor Latin. If anybody aggrees and is ready to share this task, please contact me at aurelian@globtel.ro .
phpbb
aurelianus
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 10:55 pm
Location: Romania

Postby benissimus » Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:48 pm

Welcome Aurelianus,

As far as I know, you are welcome to do whatever you want with your own personal copies. However, the work of producing those documents is the intellectual property of Jeff (the webmaster) and you should get his permission before redistributing it.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
User avatar
benissimus
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Postby Timothy » Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:51 pm

Well, I've converted up to § 169 in D'Ooge to html. I find it is vert handy for me to use for review but I've fallen behind because it takes time.

I use MS FrontPage to do the fairly simple html and scan the pages with an HP scanner that creates the html text. After that I have to do cleanup work with the page to keep it faithful to the book.

- Tim
phpbb
User avatar
Timothy
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 374
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:16 pm
Location: Baltimore

Postby Timothy » Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:57 pm

benissimus wrote:However, the work of producing those documents is the intellectual property of Jeff (the webmaster) and you should get his permission before redistributing it.


True.

I hadn't thought about it but mainly becuase I was planning to send them the Jeff first to see if he wanted to offer them as something for the subscribers, etc. I was doubtful because it would mean two versions of it.

- Tim
phpbb
User avatar
Timothy
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 374
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:16 pm
Location: Baltimore

Postby tdominus » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:23 am

If you make a transcription ("derivative work") of a public domain copy of the work, then you can do whatever you like with it, including selling it for profit.

In the case of the site's great .pdf files, there are two copyrights to consider: firstly, the copyright held by the original author/publisher, which generally expired long long ago, and secondly, the copyright of the derivative, digital work made when the text was scanned and converted into a pdf file.

It is this second copyright that is an issue here, so if you wish to distribute your work you will have to obtain permission from the copyright holder, namely Jeff.

If you think this is confusing, consider the case of music copyright, where you can have an original composer, an original publisher, a republished copy of the originally published score, a modern copy of the republished copy, transcriptions and arrangements to other instruments, modern issues of the original published score, copyrights and duties for the performance of the score, copyrights and duties for the recording of the score, copyrights and duties for sampling the recording of the score, and so on.

That said, I think your idea is a good one and I hope that Jeff has no objections. A plain text copy will create not only smaller files, but also files that print better, are easily searchable, and so on..
tdominus
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:15 pm
Location: Terra Australis

Postby Timothy » Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:07 pm

That said, I think your idea is a good one and I hope that Jeff has no objections. A plain text copy will create not only smaller files, but also files that print better, are easily searchable, and so on..


Thanks for the explaination. It makes sense, which is really saying something when speaking of coyrights. :)

After this I'm a bit sensitive about causing problems here. It may be that the intention is to use PDF as the prefered medium for distribution because there is a reasonable amount of support for the format, the text is accurate, the process of replication and packaging is stable, etc. So while I may be focused on the aspect of providing learning materials, I can't disregard the distribution process, etc.

Anyway, something to think about. If I keep at it I anticipate having a first draft by early fall. Then we make the sacrifice to the gods and consult the oracle.

- tim
phpbb
User avatar
Timothy
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 374
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:16 pm
Location: Baltimore

Postby Jeff Tirey » Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:04 pm

This is why we only convert our grammars and readers from period textbooks and we avoid all reprints. This way, we avoid 100% any issues with derivative copyright violations (and we respect the hard work and investment of publishers who provide reprints).

jeff
Textkit Founder
User avatar
Jeff Tirey
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2002 6:58 pm
Location: Strongsville, Ohio

Postby tdominus » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:17 pm

Jeff, exactly. Now, as I'm sure you're aware, you own the copyright to the converted files. It'd be nice to see some official policy on exactly how they can be used. At the moment it's not clear what you allow to be done with the works. Sure, they can be downloaded and studied privately... but can they:

* Be printed?
* Be OCR'd and converted to other formats?
* Be retyped?
* Be "cut up" and rearranged and so forth?
* Be resold, for example on cds, for profit?
* Be converted into interactive quizzes?
* Be converted into learning software?

This is obviously a complex question, but I feel a clear answer on this would be of benefit not only to textkit but also to the entire field of study. Naturally one must seek balance between the issues of exclusive ownership with the possibilities of open distribution.
tdominus
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:15 pm
Location: Terra Australis

Postby tdominus » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:14 am

Actually, http://www.textkit.com/terms_of_use.php seems to specify each of these things. I should have searched more before asking.
tdominus
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:15 pm
Location: Terra Australis


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 46 guests