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"hoc" in "in catilinam"

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"hoc" in "in catilinam"

Postby Pete » Sun Jun 06, 2004 8:12 pm

I'm having a little trouble with the word "hoc" in the following sentence:

verum ego hoc quod iam pridem factum esse oportuit certa de causa nondum adducor ut faciam.


Cicero is explaining why he can't kill Catiline just yet, and I think that "hoc" refers to the execution of Catiline.

My textbook (but this isn't for a course I am taking) tells me that

1. the main clause is: "verum ego hoc ... certa de causa nondum adducor..."
2. the relative clause is: "quod iam pridem factum esse oportuit"
3. the result clause is: "ut faciam"



My translation so far is

But I am prompted from a specific cause not yet to do THIS, which ought to have been done already long ago.


As you can see, my "hoc" (which in my translation is the capitalized "THIS") is part of the so-called "result clause"--at any rate, I can't see how it fits into the main clause. But I bet the book is right, since the "hoc" is so very far away from the result clause. So how on earth can "hoc" fit into the main clause? Could it possibly be ablative?
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Postby benissimus » Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:20 am

Hoc could be an ablative of agent with adducor.
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Postby Pete » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:00 pm

So do you think this is right:

But I am prompted by THIS, which ought to have been done already long ago, from a specific cause not yet to do it.


Now there are two "agents," as you call them, of the passive verb--the "causa" and the "hoc."

Are you sure about what you're saying, or was it a suggestion?

Does it make sense to be prompted BY the execution of an evil man, to execute him?
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Postby benissimus » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:51 pm

Actually I think your interpretation was similar to mine, but the textbook seems to disagree.

If hoc is the agent, then I would choose to interpret it as something like "I am not yet drawn away from [this] particular matter by this thing which ought to have been long ago by now, to do [the thing that ought to have been done]".

It doesn't make a great deal of sense and I might be way off. In any case, the possibility that the implied object of the result clause is still "the thing that ought to have been done" is not ruled out.
Last edited by benissimus on Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Pete » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:05 pm

Is a Greek accusative of respect stretching it?

But as for THIS, which ought to have been done already long ago, I am prompted not to do it yet for a specific reason.


Otherwise, I think I shall just assume that my book was wrong, and that "hoc" is the accusative object of "faciam."
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Postby Pete » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:08 pm

This site (http://www-personal.umich.edu/~markusdd ... ction.html) agrees with me that "hoc" is the object of "faciam," so I would not be alone.
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Postby benissimus » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:24 pm

What is this arcane book, may I ask?
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Postby Pete » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:29 pm

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