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si qua fidem tanto est operi latura vetustas: parsing this

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si qua fidem tanto est operi latura vetustas: parsing this

Postby hlawson38 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:33 pm

Please check my parsing of the troublesome line.

Troublesome line marked ** ... **

hic mortis durae casum tuaque optima facta
**si qua fidem tanto est operi latura vetustas**
non equidem nec te, iuvenis memorande, silebo.

Aeneid, Book X, ll. 791-793; Loeb Classical.

my translation of marked line:

If by-any-way belief in-such-great deeds antiquity is to-be-about-to-be-bearing

My parsing:

On my reading, "fidem" is the direct object of the future active participle "latura".

"latura", feminine singular nominative, modifies the noun "vetustas", as a predicate adjective.

"vetustas" is the subject of "est".
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Re: si qua fidem tanto est operi latura vetustas: parsing th

Postby adrianus » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:21 pm

si qua fidem tanto est operi latura vetustas -->
si qua vetustas fidem tanto operi latura est

"if some [future] age is going to set its faith in [/to/for] so great an act"

qua vetustas aliquid latura est = "some/any age is going to bear something"
latura est, the First Periphrastic Conjugation of the verb "fero" (A&G §195)
Prima conjugatio periphrastica est.
so // ergo
vetustas is the subject of the verb "latura est"
subjectum verbi, scilicet "latura est", est vetustas
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: si qua fidem tanto est operi latura vetustas: parsing th

Postby hlawson38 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:46 pm

Thanks adrianus for the reply.

"si qua fidem tanto est operi latura vetustas"

On your reading, "qua" is used adjectivally, right? It is nominative singular feminine, and modifies "vetustas".
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Re: si qua fidem tanto est operi latura vetustas: parsing th

Postby adrianus » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:14 pm

Yes, it is and it does. Qua, more than quae, for feminine nominative singular. A&G §149. Not quâ because the "a" is short.
Lego quidem. Qua plus quam quae feminino generi nominativo casu singularis numeri. Non quâ quod correpta syllaba.
Last edited by adrianus on Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: si qua fidem tanto est operi latura vetustas: parsing th

Postby Sceptra Tenens » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:17 pm

This qua, to be clear, is just a shortened form of aliqua. This shortening occurs after certain words like si... I really can't remember the list, though.
mihi iussa capessere fas est
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Re: si qua fidem tanto est operi latura vetustas: parsing th

Postby adrianus » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:03 am

Yes, I think that's a handy way of thinking about it and I've read that elsewhere, but personally I go with A&G (§310) in preferring to see a distinction between quis and aliquis, where quis is most indefinite and aliquis less so. In other words, "qua" is strictly not a shortened "aliqua".

Ita, habilis ut instrumentum ratiocinandi est haec notio et sic alibi legi. Ego autem grammaticam de A&G (in trecentesimâ decimâ sectione) sequor, quae pronomina cuius alicuiusque distinguit, cum perobscurum quis-qua(e)-quod, aliquis-aliqua-aliquod minùs incertum. Aliter dictu, non abbreviatio alicuius pronominis strictim est "qua".

Et Gildersleeve, §315:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Qk7foW63cO0C&pg=PA200&lpg=PA200
"NOTES.—1. Aliquis is used after , etc., when there is stress..."
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: si qua fidem tanto est operi latura vetustas: parsing th

Postby Sceptra Tenens » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:53 pm

Well, it's certainly no part of quis, because the feminine singular of that pronoun is quae, not qua.

"NOTES.—1. Aliquis is used after sī, etc., when there is stress..."


I see no contradiction here. You say "do not" when there is emphasis on "not", but that doesn't mean that "don't" isn't a shortened form of the same.
mihi iussa capessere fas est
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Re: si qua fidem tanto est operi latura vetustas: parsing th

Postby adrianus » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:12 pm

Not really. See A&G §149.
Non verum. Vide sectionem centesimam quadragesimam nonam in A&G.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=AG+149

Read also // Lege etiam A&G §310, Gildersleeve, §315:
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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