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in + accusative

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in + accusative

Postby Junya » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:11 am

Hi.


in + accusative

In L&S, immediately after the part of sample sentence space, where "in modum alicujus" (according to the way of, in the way of) appears, there are samples like these.

in hanc formulam omnia judicia legitima sint

(every sentence be lawful according to, in accordance to this formula)

pax data in has leges est
(peace was made according to these laws, terms)

As I translated above, I think this means "according to, in accordance to"

------------.

But among the samples beside these there are ones obscure to me.

senatus consultum in haec verba factum

(the consultation of the Senate was made "according to" these words ??? / "into", "resulting as" this form of words ??? )

judicium quin acciperet in ea ipsa verba quae Naevius edebat, non recusasse

(that he be not going to take the opinion "in accordance to" ??? these words / "into", "resulting as" ??? these words which Naevius said he had not refused)
<<as to this sentence I don't understand the meaning, too>>





Please give a correct translation and teach me about this usage of in + acc..
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Re: in + accusative

Postby adrianus » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:00 pm

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3Din1

in hanc formulam omnia judicia legitima sint = in [/as determined by] this formula all rulings were legitimized

pax data in has leges est = in [/as determined by] these laws peace was given

senatus consultum in haec verba factum = the senate's decision [was] made in [/as determined by] these words

judicium quin acciperet in ea ipsa verba quae Naevius edebat, non recusasse = did not refuse a trial, but rather accepted it in [/as determined by] the very words that Naevius stipulated
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: in + accusative

Postby Junya » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:13 am

Thank you Adrianus. I was wondering why nobody gives an answer to this question.

But your tranlations all seem to take the "in" as if it is taking ablative, not accusative. Why ? Could you explain ?
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Re: in + accusative

Postby adrianus » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:21 pm

Junya wrote:But your tranlations all seem to take the "in" as if it is taking ablative, not accusative. Why ? Could you explain ?

I don't know why you think that, Junya. It's not L&S I.A "In Space", I.B "In Time", I.C "...in a certain condition, situation or relation" (in + albative) but it is II.C "...an aiming at, an inclining or striving towards a thing". "In" fits well in English in all the cases, and while "by" would be translated by an ablative alone, I don't think "as determined by" would be translated by an ablative. Following L&S, I thought "in" + acc would be the right thing for "as determined by", where striving to realize something determines the effort. Equally, "In accordance with" and "in terms of" might be used in all these cases in English, I think. If you don't agree, just use "in" because that certainly works here.

Nescio cur id credas, Junya. Omnes sensus per in cum ablativo excluduntur. Item cum casus ablativus "by" anglicè significet, aliter traditur "as determined by". Secundum definitionem "in" praepositionis II.C in L&S, aptius credo "in" cum ablativo esse pro "as determined by", quod destinat consectatio conatum. Aequè substitui licet hîc anglicè "In accordance with" vel "in terms of", ut reor. Si dissentis, "in" anglicè scribas quod hîc aptum sit certé.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: in + accusative

Postby Junya » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:09 am

I see. Thank you for the explanation.
But your "as determined by" was difficult and twisted.

Doesn't "into" fit to this usage in the meaning, though translations using it would be apparently awkward ?




Please continue to be a teacher to me. I admire you.
Junya
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Re: in + accusative

Postby adrianus » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:43 pm

Junya wrote:But your "as determined by" was difficult and twisted...I admire you.

You know me too well, Junya.
Nimis intimè, Junya, me scis.

junya wrote:Doesn't "into" fit to this usage in the meaning, though translations using it would be apparently awkward ?

I think the second part of this undermines the first.
Secunda sententiae pars primam suffodit.

We learn from each other.
Manus manum lavat.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
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