Textkit Logo

Question re meter and feet

Here's where you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Moderator: thesaurus

Question re meter and feet

Postby pmda » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:30 am

In Orberg's Pensum A in Cap XXXIV he asks for the following to be scanned:

Now, I've mostly got this right but in the middle of two of the lines (as indicated) he has in the answer two verticallines. These indicate the end of a foot but also seem to divide the line so that what follows doesn't have any effect on the syllable length. I have marked these, 'II' on the 2nd and 4th line. Can anyone tell me how I can should be able to spot these because, otherwise, I'd have marked the 'is' in 'fallis' as short whereas with the dividing II it is marked long...

Similarly I wouldn't have divided up the feet as they are.... Is there something I'm missing?

scrībere mē quereris, Vēlōx, epigrammata longa.

ipse nihil scrībis: II tū breviōra facis.


das numquam, semper prōmittis, Galla, rogantī.

sī semper fallis, II iam rogo, Galla, negā.
pmda
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:15 am

Re: Question re meter and feet

Postby adrianus » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:14 pm

I consonanti jam vocabulum incipitur.
Jam starts with consonantal i.

Now, I've mostly got this right but ...I wouldn't have divided up the feet as they are.... Is there something I'm missing?

A reason for believing you are right and evidence of how the feet are divided.
Rationem requiris quoad cur te rectum esse credas, non minùs vestigia modi pedum dividendorum.
Last edited by adrianus on Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3270
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: Question re meter and feet

Postby adrianus » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:28 pm

pmda wrote:Can anyone tell me how I can should be able to spot these...

De caesurâ, vide A&G, §611b: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=AG+611&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0001
De versûs hexametri caesurâ, vide http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=AG+615&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0001
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3270
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: Question re meter and feet

Postby pmda » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:36 pm

adrianus wrote:I consonanti jam vocabulum incipitur.
Jam starts with consonantal i.

Now, I've mostly got this right but ...I wouldn't have divided up the feet as they are.... Is there something I'm missing?

A reason for believing you are right and evidence of how the feet are divided.
Rationem requiris quoad cur te rectum esse credas, non minùs vestigia modi pedum dividendorum.


Adrianus, I know I'm mostly right in my scansion because I've checked my answers against Orberg's answer book. I don't understand your point about the consonantal 'i' in Iam. My questions are:

1) There is a break in the line signified by II. - what is that?

2) Why is it there, in particular and and how can one know where they go?

I looked briefly at your 2nd post which I think provides answers to these.....I will study them carefully - though where the caesura goes seems to depend upon the sense of the verse..

Many thanks.
pmda
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:15 am

Re: Question re meter and feet

Postby Sceptra Tenens » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:50 pm

pmda wrote:I don't understand your point about the consonantal 'i' in Iam.


Generally, when I starts a word and is followed by a vowel, it becomes a consonant sounding like our Y - iam is pronounced yam.

So, fallis jam (consonantal I is sometimes written as J) is scanned as fāllīs jām, since there are two consonants after the I in fallis.

The || represents the caesura (a pause), which is always at that place in a pentameter. In a hexameter, it usually goes on the third, fourth or second and fourth foot. It is placed where a word ends in the middle of a foot, usually after a long syllable. The links that Adrianus offered will explain better than I can.
mihi iussa capessere fas est
Sceptra Tenens
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:46 am
Location: Loca feta furentibus austris

Re: Question re meter and feet

Postby adrianus » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:52 pm

pmda wrote:I know I'm mostly right in my scansion because I've checked my answers against Orberg's answer book.

Then why do you say this, pmda?
Cur tunc ita dicis?
pmda wrote:I wouldn't have divided up the feet as they are...

You mean you got things right elsewhere but not in this case, perhaps. You are going well.
Forsit vis dicere te alibi rectè respondisse, exemplis citatis secretis. Macte!
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3270
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: Question re meter and feet

Postby pmda » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:38 pm

Adrianus..what I mean is that I'm doing reasonably OK at scanning the meter and syllable length etc......but that the caesura 'II' somewhat threw me. I couldn't figure out any rules about where they went or why they went where they went (I found them in Orberg's Answer book which showed that I had got most of the scansion right.....but did not identify the caesuras...and hence did not appreciate that the first syllable of the following sentence was not influenced by the end of previous syllable but was treated like a new line...if you catch my drift.)
pmda
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:15 am

Re: Question re meter and feet

Postby pmda » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:40 pm

Sceptra Tenens..many thanks for your comments..
pmda
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:15 am

Re: Question re meter and feet

Postby adrianus » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:41 pm

I catch your drift, pmda.
Vim, pmda, sententiae tuae capio.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3270
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], Godmy and 106 guests