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Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

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Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby pmda » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:44 pm

'...nec tamen versus eius comparandi sunt cum epigrammatis sale plenis quae Martialis in in inmicos scripsit.

Nonne 'comparandi' gerundivum (Masc. Nom. Pl.) est?
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby jamesbath » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:56 pm

pmda wrote:'Nonne 'comparandi' gerundivum (Masc. Nom. Pl.) est?


According to a book titled "Beginning Latin Poetry Reader" McGraw Hill, pg 239: "A common feature of Latin verse is the use of the plural form of a noun instead of the singular, with no difference in meaning."

This is in reference to the ninth line of "Hope Not for Immortality" by Horace, where he uses frigora to mean cold instead of using frigus.

Maybe that's of help to you. I don't know. I just happened to be studying that poem yesterday.
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby pmda » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:05 pm

Thanks. I'm trying to confirm whether it's a gerundive. I think it probably is...
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby jamesbath » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:35 am

It looks like present passive indicative to me: comparandi sunt. Cornelius seems to be saying the verses are compared with the epigrams Martial wrote. Oh... I think I see what you mean. You think it might translate as "should be compared" and, hence, it is gerundive?

Oh never mind. I am confused by Whitaker's Words... I must be seeing it wrongly:

compar.andi VPAR 1 1 NOM P M FUT PASSIVE PPL
PPL+sunt V 1 1 PRES PASSIVE IND 3 P
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby Sceptra Tenens » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:36 pm

Gerundivum est.
mihi iussa capessere fas est
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby timeodanaos » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:46 am

It is gerundive. "his verses should not be compared to ..."

Whitaker's Words operates with the term future passive participle, which in some cases might seem to fit the semantical features of the gerundive. But don't use that term.
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby pmda » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:58 pm

thanks to you all for your help
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby timeodanaos » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:44 am

Whose verses, by the way, shouldn't be compared to Martial's?!
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby jamesbath » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:56 am

timeodanaos wrote:Whose verses, by the way, shouldn't be compared to Martial's?!


Catullus being compared to Martialis, I think.
Catullus ens comparatur Martialis, puto.
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby MatthaeusLatinus » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:26 pm

Sorry, but is ens comparatur some kind of mediaeval construction?
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby timeodanaos » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:40 pm

MatthaeusLatinus wrote:Sorry, but is ens comparatur some kind of mediaeval construction?
No, it isn't. Jamesbath, I think, is just confused by the participle in the English sentence :) It must be Catullus est qui comparatur Martiali ut puto or the like that is meant.
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby jamesbath » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:30 pm

gratias vobis pro dicens de errore :oops:
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby Sceptra Tenens » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:56 pm

jamesbath wrote:gratias vobis pro dicens de errore :oops:

Be careful with English forms - it's easy to become a slave to them. Here you mean (using your vocabulary): Gratias vobis [ago] quod mihi de errore dixistis.

The participle in -ns should be considered an adjective rather than a verb - dicens = "a person who is saying".
mihi iussa capessere fas est
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby jamesbath » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:42 pm

Sceptra Tenens wrote:Be careful with English forms - it's easy to become a slave to them. Here you mean (using your vocabulary): Gratias vobis [ago] quod mihi de errore dixistis.

The participle in -ns should be considered an adjective rather than a verb - dicens = "a person who is saying".


Auxilium tuum mihi prodest :)
Quia mihi prodes... :?:
Gratias tibi ago.
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby Sceptra Tenens » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:00 pm

You're welcome :)

jamesbath wrote:Quia mihi prodes... :?:


I'm actually not sure whether the quod there actually means "because" or if it serves some other function. All the same, I see nothing wrong with quia here.
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Re: Nonne comparandi gerundivum est?

Postby nachtebuch » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:58 pm

Catullus est qui comparatur Martiali ut puto.


I know this is terribly off-topic, but this construction mystifies me. Is there some sort of special usage with 'qui ... ut ...' that actually means Jamesbath's 'I think' in English?
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