Textkit Logo

Pronouns as Subjects

Here's where you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Moderator: thesaurus

Pronouns as Subjects

Postby Amy » Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:38 pm

I'm confused about a sentence from Jenney's First Year Latin:

The people whose courage you praised are now citizens.
Can that be "Qui virtuem laudavisti nunc cives sunt" (letting qui imply people, since it's masculine plural, like substantives do)
Or is it necessary to add "Ei" before the qui, making it "Ei qui virtuem laudavisti..."
Either? Neither?
Thanks :D
phpbb
Amy
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:01 am
Location: Massachusetts

Postby Kasper » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:33 am

[i]Qui [/i] and all other forms of it are often used as 'those who' or 'they who' &c. However, it seems odd to me to use 'qui' which is a nominative.

Although feeling like a first time pilot in the battle of britain i would suggest:

"Homines, virtutem quorum laudavisti, nunc sunt cives."
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
Kasper
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:01 am
Location: Melbourne

Postby benissimus » Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:42 am

Kasper's translation is flawless. However, if you really have your heart set on removing the antecedent, you could simply have...
Quorum virtutem laudavisti nunc cives sunt or something similar.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
User avatar
benissimus
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Postby Kasper » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:13 am

My translation may have been factually correct, but benissimus sure demonstrates the beauty of latin.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
Kasper
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:01 am
Location: Melbourne

Postby Amy » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:22 am

Thank you both so much! I just discovered a gaping hole in my understanding, followed by a big "ohhh" moment ten minutes later...
phpbb
Amy
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:01 am
Location: Massachusetts

Postby whiteoctave » Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:22 pm

I think if the reverse relative construction (which is very nice) is to be used - i.e. when the relative pronoun precedes what would normally be called the antecedent - it is advisable to insert a pronoun to pick up the relative. Here we have "Of whose virtue I praised, [sc. these] are now citizens". I hate doing it, like most of us, but I think hi/hae/illi/illae is needed.

~dave
User avatar
whiteoctave
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:42 pm
Location: Cambridge


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ed-lanty and 66 guests