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Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby Episcopus » Sun Jun 15, 2003 2:21 pm

1. is i or i with macron pronounced as 'eye' or 'eee' ? like 'i' ! imperative -go!<br />if i without macron it i as in bit, and with macron is i as in machine, how would radii be pronounced?<br />2. is the dipthong ae pronounced 'eye' or 'ee'? I have heard different pronunciations for both i and ae. As in caesar 'seize 'er', but Galeae as 'gal ee eye'! <br /><br />so is it formul-eye or formul-ee?<br /><br />I am a beginner and confused :)<br /><br />3. Can one be kind and give me conjugations for meus, our, your - they are said in my book to be declined as 1st and 2nd conj. adjectives but when I try it comes out weird :(<br /><br />4. How would one say ' all that I love...' ?<br /><br />5. How can 'his', 'her', 'their' be said in Latin?<br /><br />6. I am baffled by ipse, iste, ille, is! How can they all mean he?<br /><br />7. dominam quem mulcebam - the lady who i stroked?<br /><br />8. Are there modal verbs, or some sort of equivalent in Latin?<br /><br />9. So what is 'I can go to Rome' ?<br /><br />10. When using a noun after esse to be, is the accusative used as an object of the verb or does it stay in nominative?<br /><br />as in 'sum domina', or 'sum dominam'?<br /><br />11. The same with habere?<br /><br />12. What are the pronouns, when using in a sentence 'I asked him/her/them'?<br /><br />13. What are the reflexive pronouns?<br /><br /><br /><br />I would be incredibly grateful if an intelligent Latin speaker could help a humble beginner such as me :-\<br /><br />Infact any help would be appreciated very much! The grammar books make no sense sometimes!<br /><br />Thankyou <br /><br />Episcopus
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Re:Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby Zizero » Sun Jun 15, 2003 9:13 pm

I'm not exactly an expert in Latin, but I might be able to help on some of your questions.<br /><br />Here goes:<br /><br />1) "i" is pronounced like "bit" an "i [macron]" like "machine". radii is pronounced like two short i's, so radi-i<br /><br />2)"ae" is pronounced like "eye" or alternatively like a-é. Again you have to pronounce two vowels one after the other without a separating consonant. It gets a bit weird sometimes, so I prefer the "eye" pronounciation.<br /><br />BTW As far as I know nobody's really sure about the way Romans pronounced Latin. If a modern latin student tried to communicate with an Ancient Roman, it might sound like a Frenchman trying to speak English:-) <br /><br />I think there's been a lot of scholarly debate about pronounciation, and every other decade, the pronouciation you get taught at school varies. For example, my father used to pronounced "ae" as "eye" and I was taught "ae" is pronounced as "a-é".<br /><br />3) Their declension works the same as bonus, bona, bonum<br /><br />So, you get meus, mea, meum; noster, nostra, nostrum and vester, vestra, vestrum<br /><br />The only exception is that the vocatif singular masculine of meus is not "me" but "mi", as in "Tu quoque mi fili!".<br /><br />4) Omnia quae amo (not sure though) <br /><br />5)suus, sua, suum for his, her or their<br /><br />6)ipse means "he himself".<br /><br />Ipse scripsi: I wrote myself<br />Ipse vidisti: You have seen (it) yourself. <br /><br />Ille is opposed to hic. "hic" is what's nearer and "ille" is what's further. <br /><br />Romani et Carthaginienses pugnabant. Illi vincerunt quod hi erant inferiores. <br />The Romans and the Carthaginians fought. The formes triumphed, because the latter were inferior.<br /><br />Besides, ille can have an emphatic meaning:<br />Ille dux: this great leader.<br /><br />Iste designates a person or an object further away than hic but nearer than ille.<br /><br />In addition, it can have a pejorativ meaning.<br />Iste dux: this bad leader.<br /><br />"Is" is a pronoun-adjectiv, with no specific connotations. It is widely used and you should get familiar with its uses.<br /><br />Eos vidi. I have seen them.<br /><br />7)your translation is right.<br /><br />8)Yes, e.g. velle (to want), nolle (to not want), malle (to prefer). There are more, I think.<br /><br />9)Possum ire Romam.<br /><br />10)"domina sum". It stays in nominative.<br /><br />11)habere+accusative <br /><br />Habeo agrem: I have a field.<br /><br />12) is, ea, id.<br /><br />I asked him: Eum rogabam.<br /><br />13) What are "reflective pronouns" ? :) <br />I'm not an native English speaker, so I don't know the grammatical terms in English. Sorry.<br /><br />Anyway, I think this might help you.<br />
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Re:Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby Episcopus » Mon Jun 16, 2003 4:25 pm

Thankyou!!<br /> ;D<br /><br />For being so helpful!!<br /><br />What is your native language?<br /><br />Thanks again!!!!! ;D ;D :D
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Re:Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby Zizero » Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:43 pm

Benissimus, thanks for your contribution. :)<br /><br />I have a few remarks on some of your points:<br /><br />10. Esse CAN carry an object as for example in the constructions Esse+Dativ or Esse+Genitiv. <br /><br />Hi libri sunt mihi.<br />These books are mine.<br /><br />11. Not all verbs take accusative with their direct objects. Indeed, verb constructions are not always the same in English as in Latin. <br /><br />e.g. credere (to believe someone or to trust someone) comes with dative in Latin.<br /><br /><br />I really enjoy having these discussions. The best thing is they force me to actually open my grammar book, which is not a bad thing, I suppose.<br /><br />By the way, Episcopus, French is my mother-tongue.
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Re:Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby benissimus » Tue Jun 17, 2003 10:19 pm

Whoops. I was a little bit too general.<br /><br />When I said it cannot carry an object, I should have said "direct object" (accusative... and I mean without a preposition). You are absolutely right that some verbs use a genitive, dative, or ablative as well. In these verbs I suspect that the alternate case is a matter of concept and is not really considered equivalent to a true direct object. Example of these verbs are "credere", "carere" and "egere". I don't think I know of any else.<br /><br />I'm also not sure about "ESSE" in the infinitive taking a direct object. I know I have seen this in periphrastic constructions (i.e. "I know him to be a brave man" as opposed to the more acceptable translation "I know that he is a brave man"). It may just be that my book was mistaken in this instance, since I don't know if I have seen it more than once. Also in a sentence like "To be you is to be a fool" would it be "Esse te est esse stultum" or "Esse tu est esse stultus"<br /><br />I also enjoy having my abilities challenged so feel free to criticize anything I write that may be questionable or just have been overlooked. I am still very much a learner, and I'm on vacation so I could use some refreshment.
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Re:Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby Episcopus » Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:38 pm

Thankyou both Zizero and benissimus!<br /><br />Zizero :) <br /><br />J'apprends le français au collège et Je crois que cette langue est !!plus!! facile que la langue de laquelle nous parlons maintenant ;)<br /><br />benissimus, I look forward to talking about latin on msn :)
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Re:Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby Magistra » Wed Jun 25, 2003 2:33 pm

I'd have to agree with Zizero on #9:<br /><br />Possum ire Romam. (ad Romam would indicate "to the vicinity of Rome")<br /><br />When using accusative of place to which with the names of cities, towns and small islands ad is omitted. Otherwise it takes on the idea of "to the vicinity of."<br /><br />As far as esse with a direct object, it is an intransitive verb and therefore can not have a direct object. What some people think appears to be a direct object is really a predicate nominative, therefore, nominative case.<br /><br />When esse is the verb in indirect statement/indirect discourse/oratio obliqua (i.e. a summary of someone's words or thoughts), the subject and any words describing the subject are in the accusative case. <br /><br />Nuntiavit regem esse contentum. He announced that the king was satisfied.<br /><br />I hope this has been helpful.<br /><br />Magistra
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Re:Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby benissimus » Thu Jun 26, 2003 1:42 am

Of course. It probably was just an adjective :-X<br />I also have yet to learn the conjugation of "Ire" thanks to my silly textbook which puts "Velle", "Ferre", and "Ire" to the end despite the fact they are some of the most commonly used verbs.<br /><br />Episcopus- When do you go on MSN and on what time zone? I am assuming in the morning (morning for me at least). I am usually on between 4 or 5 and 10 PM... later or earlier on the weekends possibly.
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Re:Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby Magistra » Thu Jun 26, 2003 12:38 pm

I don't understand the reference to an adjective in your first line. Oh well...<br /><br />You can find a concise conjugation of ire at the website<br /><br />http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~econrad/lang/lvire.html<br /><br />If you know the conjugation and meanings for regular verbs, ire is simple, but a bit wierd.<br /><br />If you go to his Latin page, you'll find the conjugation of the other irregulars -- and more.<br /><br />Magistra
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Re:Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby Episcopus » Thu Jun 26, 2003 3:45 pm

ben - I am GMT on after 4 usually! <br />Depends if I am reading D'ooge latin for beginners!<br /><br />i ab meis mater! ???<br /><br /> :-*
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Re:Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby benissimus » Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:32 pm

What I meant about the adjective comment:<br /><br />I.E. in this sentence: Ea nuntiavit magistram esse amicam.<br /><br />She said that her teacher was friendly, though it would be wrong if "amicam" were used as a noun rather than an adjective. You could also use "stultus" or something, but I am feeling nice today.
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Re:Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby Magistra » Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:53 pm

Benissimus,<br /><br />OK, I understand the reference now. Gratias. <br /><br />However, if you were using amicam as a noun (friend), it would still be correct. Suppose you substitute "her slave was a cook". That would be "servum esse coquum".<br /><br />Magistra
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Re:Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby Episcopus » Wed Jul 02, 2003 5:31 pm

;D<br /><br />You are all too kind!<br /><br />Need to clarify something, so are the reflexive pronouns merely the pronouns in accusative case if a normal trans. verb? minus the ones taking dative (they make sense but they're annoying in german too!)<br /><br />And finally, what is the difference, if any between et and -que?
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Re:Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby benissimus » Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:08 am

Reflexive Pronouns describe the subject itself. It's the same thing as a Person Pronoun except that it matches the one doing the action.<br /><br />Pretty much myself, yourself, herself, himself, itself, ourselves, themselves, yourselves, etc.<br /><br />Reflexives are only used when you want to refer back to the one doing the action. <br />i.e. - "He loves himself."/"He gave it to himself."<br />Reflexives show that he loves his own self and not somebody else as if you said <br />"He loves him"/ "He gave it to him."<br />The first two "reflect" back to the subject, hence "reflexive pronouns". The second two create a new person.
Last edited by benissimus on Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:Many answers to questions needed experts :)

Postby Episcopus » Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:28 pm

[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=174;start=0#964 date=1056666734]<br />What I meant about the adjective comment:<br /><br />I.E. in this sentence: Ea nuntiavit magistram esse amicam.<br /><br />She said that her teacher was friendly, though it would be wrong if "amicam" were used as a noun rather than an adjective. You could also use "stultus" or something, but I am feeling nice today.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />She announced that the teacher is /to be friend(Ly)<br /><br />Has to be adj ...heh I didnt know of what you spoke before :)
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