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Please help

Postby benissimus » Thu Jun 12, 2003 3:30 am

This sequence from Catullus 101 is giving me trouble :(<br />I think I have the gist of it, but the intertwining structures are rather confusing.<br /><br />Nunc tamen interea haec, prisco quae more parentum<br /> tradita sunt tristi munere ad inferias,<br />accipe fraterno multum manantia fletu,<br /> atque in perpetuum, frater, ave atque vale.<br /><br />I have no trouble with the last line, but even heavily annotated, the rest is proving to be a real challenge to me. If you need me to include macrons or the notes I have I can do that as well...
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Re:Please help

Postby Skylax » Thu Jun 12, 2003 11:44 am

[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=165;start=0#789 date=1055388631]<br />Nunc tamen interea haec, prisco quae more parentum<br /> tradita sunt tristi munere ad inferias,<br />accipe fraterno multum manantia fletu,<br /> atque in perpetuum, frater, ave atque vale.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Sequence of the words according to agreements :<br />nunc tamen interea adverbs<br />accipe tristi munere "receive by means of a sad task (of mine)"<br />ad inferias "for (your) funeral sacrifice"<br />haec "these things" direct object of accipe<br />quae tradita sunt "which have been handed down (to us)"<br />prisco more parentum "by the old customs of (our) parents"<br />manantia "drenched" refers to haec<br />multum adverb referring to manantia<br />fletu fraterno "with a brother's tears" fraterno attribute adjective sing. masc. Ablative referring to fletu<br /><br />Regards,<br />Fernand
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Re:Please help

Postby benissimus » Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:43 pm

Thank you very much. I just wish I could understand that without ripping the word order up :-\
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Re:Please help

Postby Skylax » Fri Jun 13, 2003 7:06 am

You'll find here the method suggested by Prof. Hale :<br />http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0066<br /><br /><br />But, as he wrote his article in 1886, you must remember that it was (as Paul Simon said) "a time of innocence, a time of confidence". The views on "how the mind works" have changed a bit.<br /><br />Hale suggests that in reading each word of a sentence you recall all possible meanings (lexical and grammatical) of each word and then cut down the number of possibilities according to the meanings of the preceding words. It sounds a bit superhuman, because you must be very familiar with all kinds of inflections, but, if you begin with simple sentences, it can help and give you good habits.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Fernand
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Postby Episcopus » Fri Oct 10, 2003 7:46 pm

But how far apart is that? How can a language, which was once spoken, be like that?
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Postby benissimus » Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:39 pm

I understand it now ^.^


Nunc tamen interea haec, prisco quae more parentum
tradita sunt tristi munere ad inferias,
accipe fraterno multum manantia fletu,
atque in perpetuum, frater, ave atque vale.


Nevertheless now, meanwhile, accept these, which by the ancient custom of our parents
have been handed down with a sad gift to the "funeral rites",
much flowings of a brother's tears,
and into eternity, brother, farewell and good-bye.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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