What is the word "uinis" ?

[Junya]

I don't find any entry for "vinis", fitting to this context, in the dictionaries.

in illo ipso uoluptatis ultimae aestu quo genitale uinis expellitur

I found a near word "vena" whose meaning is (vena, -ae : vein, blood vessel / the urinary passage / man's sexual organ / the strength)

Since this passage is about sex, this word is very probable. For, with "venis" instead of "vinis" you can translate as

in that very excitement of pleasure in which the semen is ejaculated with strengths (or, from the urinary passsages!)

(I translate the "genitale" as "semen", though according to L&S it means "the sexual organ".)



Someone please confirm my guess, or give me a good information.




VOCABULARY LIST

+ voluptas : satisfaction, enjoyment, pleasure, delight (whether sensual or spiritual) / the desire for pleasure / male semen
+ ultimus : being farthest, the farthest, most distant, most remot,
/ (of Time or Order of sequence) the last, latest, final ; the earliest,
/ (of Degree or Rank) the utmost, extreme, highest, first, greatest ; the lowest, meanest, most base^^^^^ultimae perfectaeque (the utmost and perfect ......)^^^^ut absit ab ultimis vitiis (that he may abstain from extreme vices)^^^^ultimae causae cur perirent (the utmost reasons why they were going to ruin)^^^^scelus (the extreme misfortune or the extreme crime)^^^^ad ultimum periculum venit (he came into the utmost calamity)^^^^dedecus (extreme ugliness)^^^^inopia (extreme want or poverty)^^^^desperatio (utmost desperation)
+ aestus, -us (m.) : violent commotion (of raging fire, of the tossing, surging motion of the sea) / heat ^^^^permiscet frigus et aestum (it mixes the coldness and the heat)^^^^multa aestu victa (many were beaten by the heat)^^^^labore et aestu languidus (weary of labor and heat) / heat of disease, fever, wound, inflammation^^^^ulceris aestus (heat in the ulcer)^^^homines aegri cum aestu febrique jactantur (sich persons are disturbed with heat and fever)
/ the passionate ferment or commotion or excitement of mind, the ardor of any (bad or good) passion^^^^civilis belli aestus (a fever among citizens for war)^^^^aestus gloriae (passion for glory)^^^^pectoris adjuvet aestum (let him keep his ardant passion of love in the heart)^^^^repente te quasi quidam aestus ingenii tui procul a terra abripuit (suddenly an excitement of your poetic mind snached you far away from the earth, so as to say)
+ genitalis : of or belonging to generation or birth, causing generation or birth, fruitful, generative, genital ^^^^genitales partes corporis (genital parts)^^^^genitalia membra (genital parts of the body)^^^genitale semen (semen)
/ genitale (n.) : = genitale membrum (genital part of the body)
+ vinis : ? (vinum : wine) (vena, -ae : vein, blood vessel / the urinary passage / man's sexual organ / the strength)
+ expellere : to drive out or away, thrust out or away, eject, expel ^^^^sagittam acru (shoot the arrow from the bow)^^^^^expulsuri tela nervos retro tendimus (we pull back the string of the bow to shoot the arrow)^^^^^patria (from the mother-land)^^^(from the city)^^^(from the shore to the land)^^^(into exile)^^^(one's wife = divorce)^^^(from life = kill)^^^^(from danger = save, deliver)^^^(laziness from the mind)^^^(anxiety from the heart)^^^(the guilty's soul = kill)^^^(disease)^^^(sleep from the eye)^^^(the doubt from the mind)^^^sententia expulsa (with the sentence being rejected)

[adrianus]

Not vinis but virus (neuter)// Non vinis sed virus (neutrius generis):

I. a slimy liquid, slime.
I. In gen., of animals and plants, Verg. G. 3, 281; Col. 2, 14, 3; Plin. 19, 5, 27, § 89; 30, 6, 15, § 45; Stat. S. 1, 4, 104.—Of animal sperm or semen, Plin. 9, 50, 74, § 157.—

A typical OCR mistake.
Erratum quod e processu optico ad characterum cognoscendum naturaliter emanat.

Here genitale is an adjective not a substantive (with membrum understood when a substantive).
Hîc adjectivum non substantivum (in quo subauditum membrum) genitale.

[Junya]

Thank you Adrianus !

It seems to make a difference to be used to the actual manuscript.
I will have to learn about the manuscript characters some day.

Or, did you find the correct word in another way ? If so, tell me how you found it.

[adrianus]

It seems to make a difference to be used to the actual manuscript.

That's surely true. This, however, has nothing to do with handwriting in manuscripts but rather the type of mistakes you get in machine recognition of printed characters,—"ru" can be incorrectly read as "ni". I just know this by experience, Junya.

Verum dicis. Orthographiam autem in chirographis haec res non spectat sed naturam erratorum cum recognitione characterum automatâ impressorum: perperàm "ni" pro "ru" legi potest. Sic scio solummodò per experimentum, Junya.

[Junya]

You seem to have much grown in the learning, Adrianus, comparing from the impression I got several years ago, while I am somehow still on the beginner's level. I am shocked and depressed.

I am still unfamiliar with the actual manuscript.
I can't memorize the word meaning, so still am always struggling with the dictionary.
So I am very very slow in reading, so I cannot read a lot of different texts (especially since I got stuck in Tertullianus' and Augustinus' Latin, which caught me with its difficulty compared from that easy Medieval philosophy's Latin).
So I cannot work like a scholar, though I want to be a scholar.
What I have progressed in these years, is just to have become able to consult the dictionary in an very elaborate manner.
All I can produce with my present ability is, translations with meticulous word lists of a couple of texts, with a snail-like process.
Everyone has his own work. Is this what I have to do ? Is this what I should keep seeking the way of ?
I am full of doubt about myself.

[adrianus]

It's an illusion (but thanks anyway, Junya). My Latin isn't so hot, and I, too, look things up a lot. I studied and taught Greek and Medieval philosophical texts in translation at university, but to learn Latin I began by studying Asterix and Tintin comics. I think you have to become a child again to learn more effectively. But we're all different. And you have chosen a very tall peak to scale. Maybe you can't see how far you have climbed because your head is in the clouds.

Illusionem! (Atqui gratias tibi ago, Junya.) Mediocris mea latinitas, et ego ut tu multos in fontes semper inquiro. In universitate scripta de philosophiâ graecâ et medii aevi in anglicum verta didici et docui. Linguam autem latinam ad discendam, cum libellis pictographicis de Asterige et Tintino inchoavi. Infantem denuò fias ut efficientiùs discas. Nos omnes autem inter nos variant. Altissimum obiter culmen ad ascendendum elegisti. Fortassè quam longè ascendisti non vides quòd caput nebulis contegitur.

[Junya]

You taught at university ? I have thought you were about my age, around 30, or more younger. Then I might have been too friendly in talking.....


Oh, you are familiar with the translations of Greek philosophy and medival philosophy. Then don't you think those translations, especially ones from Greek, are a mess ?
Each sentence is awkward and unintelligible, and the whole lines of a paragraph are totally incoherent and beyond understanding. I say that philosophical translations at present state are of a very low quality. I think that's why the translating activity is somewhat looked down on among other scholarly works.
And that's why I hate to make a fake translation by myself and am pursuing the quality translation. To tell the truth, I want to create a tiny movement in philosophical translation, aiming for a more easily readable, coherent and logically understandable state.


Asterix and Tintin have Latin words inserted ? They are not so famous in Japan, but among Japanese mangas, mainly those about Magical worlds published later than around 2000, some have Latin words and sentences inserted here and there, such sentences as magic spells. "Age, nascatur potio amoris !"

[adrianus]

Then I might have been too friendly in talking...

Of course not. I'm a lot older but it shouldn't matter.
Minimé. Multùm senior quam tu sum, verum est, at id non refert.

Then don't you think those translations, especially ones from Greek, are a mess ?

I don't have any Greek.
Graecum non habeo.

Each sentence is awkward and unintelligible, and the whole lines of a paragraph are totally incoherent and beyond understanding.

Not really [regarding Latin ones, anyway]. But translations do date and some concepts require particular world views or might indeed be very obscure.
Non adeò [saltèm circa illas e sermonibus latinis vertas]. Fieri potest translationes consenescere; porrò sunt aliquae concepta quae modos ratiocinendi proprios praesumunt, quae obscurissima quidem sint.

[You might like the mocking nature of this site:
Forsitàn hic situs inlusorius tibi placeat: http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/]

Asterix and Tintin have Latin words inserted ?

http://www.asterix.com/encyclopedia/tra ... latin.html
http://www.hergegenootschap.nl/tintin/i ... es&lng=lat

[Junya]

Oh, Tintin in Latin.
Were those translated for the kids studying Latin at school ?
You used them as a child ?
Maybe schools use them as text books ?
Did you learn Latin at elementary, middle, and high school ? I heard schools in the Western world teaching Latin are now fewer than in the old days.
I bought Harius Potter in Latin before, recommended by someone in this forum, maybe by you.


I have a couple of anthologies of philosophical texts translated by 30 or 40 translators from Greek into English, where I can compare a lot of translations.
There good translators are few,
and many translations are a mess.
You can only grasp the most general, or most vague idea from those translations.
I would mark on each translator's name, like "this one is good", "this one is unskilled", "this one doesn't understand the text at all".

[adrianus]

I learned Latin for three years in a grammar (high) school. Some teachers do use the comics as supplementary texts, but I think they were originally translated for adults who love Latin or to give to their kids who are learning Latin. I loved Latin so much that I bought the comics always when I came across them in second-hand bookshops over a period of twenty years. I stored them away until I could give time to serious study. With the internet, of course, they're much easier to get hold of.

Tres annos linguae Latinae in scholâ superiore studui. Aliqui magistri talibus libellis pictographicis ut extraordinariis fontibus utuntur, at ei libelli pro adultis qui latinum diligunt vel qui liberis donabunt primitùs convertuntur, ut opinor. Adeò latino fruari ut continuò per spatium viginti annorum libellos in Latinum conversos colligarem cum in tabernâ librorum redivivorum repperiebam. Eos condidi et otium ad studiendum deliberatione habitâ exspectavi. Quippè cum interrete, tam faciliùs ei repperiantur.

[Junya]

The "grammar school" In Britain is a kind of high school ?
Even British kids start learning Latin only at high school ? I have thought they would start more earlier, like Japanese kids start learning English, orally and grammatically, at middle school (now even at elementary school, though only orally).
(Having studied English from grammar, I was rather used to the system of grammar book when I started Latin and didn't feel difficulty about such books.)



By the way, how much, or, how deeply do you consult Latin dictionary ?
Probably since I am Japanese, I am often a little vague with Lewis & Short's word definitions, so often I have to check up a lot of example sentences (using pocket dictionaries) for an accurate grasp of word meaning. Especially when reading Tertullianus, because L&S often doesn't have the exact definition which exactly fits to the text's context.
Do English-natives have to do such things ? Only checking up the definitions is enough for you, without any need of checking up example sentences ?

[adrianus]

The "grammar school" In Britain is a kind of high school ?

Yes // Ità est.

Even British kids start learning Latin only at high school ?

I'm Irish but, yes, only at high school (if at all).
Hibernus sum at, verum est, solùm superiore in scholâ latino studere incipiunt (aliqui non omnes).

By the way, how much, or, how deeply do you consult Latin dictionary ?

Very frequently and very deeply, to learn.
Frequentissimè et profundissimè, ut discam.

Do English-natives have to do such things ? Only checking up the definitions is enough for you, without any need of checking up example sentences ?

Again, I'm Irish but English is my first language. Everyone, I would say, should check example sentences because context is so important, especially for understanding historical usage.
Iterùm, Hibernus sum, at prima langua mihi est anglica. Omnibus, id mihi videtur, magni momenti est sententias exemplares inspiciendas esse, quod significantissimus contextus praesertìm de usu historico.

[Junya]

Thank you. Those questions are what I have been wondering long since.


In checking up example sentences of the dictionary, I always keep checking up too much beyond necessity.
I hope this tendency would get moderate as the time goes on.