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Hamburga (help request)

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Hamburga (help request)

Postby mariano » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:06 am

Hi there,

I would appreciate your opinion and/or help with the following translation of a text displayed on map I-24, in: Georg Braun & Frans Hogenberg (ed.): Civitates Orbis Terrarum. Cologne, 1572. (I would love to link the respective source but this would be against forum rules. You can probably google it.)

Original in Latin:
Hamburga, Florentissimum inferioris Saxoni:æ emporium,
Anglorum frequẽtatione hoc tẽ:pore celeberrimum Ao Dñi: M.D.LXXII.


In this notation a tilde above a letter indicates
a) abbreviation, or
b) nasalization, as in today's International Phonetic Alphabet.

Latin in transliteration:
Hamburga, Florentissimum inferioris Saxoniae emporium,
Anglorum frequentatione hoc tempore celeberrimum Anno Domini 1572


English:
Hamburg, the most flourishing market at the lower of Saxony,
best known at this time as a much frequented joint in the year of the Lord 1572


German:
Hamburg, der blühendste Markt im niederen Sachsen,
am bekanntesten als ein in dieser Zeit häufig besuchter Ort im Jahre des Herrn 1572


Thanks for your time, I look forward to improve the translation!
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Re: Hamburga (help request)

Postby Hampie » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:52 pm

I wonder why the colons are there :O. They seem unnecessary when there’s already a tilde denoting an abbreviation and a stricken n/m — but why the : : : :O
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Re: Hamburga (help request)

Postby mariano » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:10 pm

Sorry, I forgot to explain that. The first two colons are used instead of a hyphen at the end of the line. The original is actually formatted like this:
Hamburga, Florentissimum inferioris Saxoni:
æ emporium, Anglorum frequẽtatione hoc tẽ:
pore celeberrimum Ao Dñi: M.D.LXXII.


Now I don't know why that last colon after "Ao Dñi". Nor why the abbreviation of "Anno" isn't marked as "Ão" or "Aõ". From "Dñi" I would conclude, that the tilde was placed after the elision, but apparently
The tilde was also used occasionally to make other abbreviations, such as over the letter ‹q› ("q̃") to signify the word que ("that").

(So says Wikipedia, s.v. tilde; underline added by me for emphasis.)

Maybe no tilde with capital letters?
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Re: Hamburga (help request)

Postby adrianus » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:12 am

It's not Ao but A° which is already a clear abbreviation so the tilde isn't necessary. Those aren't :'s but ⸗'s for hyphens, but that IS a colon after "Dñi", i.e, "Dñi:"—not a hyphen.

Non Ao sed A° quo est clarrissima abbreviatio, tunc non requiritur titulus. Non : sed ⸗ pro interductu, separatim post "Dñi" ubi est colon verum (: seu punctum duplex) non interductus.

Florentissimum... A/the most flourishing/prosperous market-town/centre of trade of lower Saxony, very famous/popular at this time as a travel destination of the English (or of the Angles [in Germany]!): in the year 1572.

mariano wrote:In this notation a tilde above a letter indicates
a) abbreviation, or
b) nasalization, as in today's International Phonetic Alphabet.

A) solum non b) significatur // Only a) not b).
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Hamburga (help request)

Postby adrianus » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:42 am

mariano wrote:From "Dñi" I would conclude, that the tilde was placed after the elision

And yet you have frequẽtatione and tẽpore, so your conclusion doesn't stand, even by this line alone.
Habes autem haec per titulos praecedentes,—id est, non stat conclusio per hunc indicem verum.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Hamburga (help request)

Postby mariano » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:08 pm

Thanks, adrianus! You are right with the double hyphen. And that my generalised conclusion from "Dñi"
with the tilde being placed after the elision

was shortsighted. However I got no better explanation for the generation of "Dñi" that also goes with "frequẽtatione" and "tẽpore".
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Re: Hamburga (help request)

Postby adrianus » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:17 pm

You don't learn a single rule; you read Capelli and Lindsay to study the practices, or just the MSS themselves. The look of the abbreviation often determines the practice, I would say, to minimize misreadings.

Solam regulam non habes sed opera Capelli et Lindsay auctorum ut fontes, vel manuscripta in ipsis quae perlegas ad exercitationes discendas. Facies abbreviationis ad morem scribendi saepè pertingit, dicam, ut vocabulum clarissimè legatur.

Adriano Capelli, Dizionario di abbreviature latine ed italiane (A. Capelli, Elements of Abbreviation in Medieval Latin); W. M. Lindsay, Notae latinae.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Hamburga (help request)

Postby mariano » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:44 pm

Thank you for your help! :)
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Re: Hamburga (help request)

Postby Kynetus Valesius » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:18 pm

Hamburga, Florentissimum inferioris Saxoni:
æ emporium, Anglorum frequẽtatione hoc tẽ:
pore celeberrimum Ao Dñi: M.D.LXXII.

Did earlier translations account for "Anglorum" . any whos here's is my guess

Hamburg, the most prosperous market town of lower Saxony, most renowned presently for its crowds of Englishmen

??
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