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artistry in the use of HIC and ILLE

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artistry in the use of HIC and ILLE

Postby blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:28 pm

hello,
good afternoon,

is there an etiquette in formal latin/roman language which
to use first in contrast of two objects/people.

Hic ager est latus, ille est angustus.

Could you write:

Ille ager est latus, hic est angustus.

how about:

Ille ager est latus, ille est angustus.


Further, are ILLE and HIC fit for any noun/person/object
in the latin lanauge or is it only fit for some words?



Are there words you would never use ILLE or HIC to substitute
for?

thank you so much

btwcarrotandnail
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Re: artistry in the use of HIC and ILLE

Postby adrianus » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:47 pm

blutoonwithcarrotandnail wrote:Could you write:

Ille ager est latus, hic est angustus.

how about:c

Ille ager est latus, ille est angustus.


You could write either. There is no rule on this.
Utrumque scribere potes. De hoc non est regula.

blutoonwithcarrotandnail wrote:Further, are ILLE and HIC fit for any noun/person/object
in the latin lanauge or is it only fit for some words?

They're suitable for all words, I would say, though less likely to be applied to abstract nouns, I can imagine.
Omnibus verbis apta ista pronomina, ut credo, etsi rarò cum nominibus mente conceptis collocentur, imaginor.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: artistry in the use of HIC and ILLE

Postby blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:54 am

adrianus wrote:
Ille ager est latus, hic est angustus.

Ille ager est latus, ille est angustus.


You could write either. There is no rule on this.



In the identical context do they have the same meaning if you
want them to?

thank you

good day

bluetoonwithcarrotandnail
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Re: artistry in the use of HIC and ILLE

Postby adrianus » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:10 pm

blutoonwithcarrotandnail wrote:In the identical context do they have the same meaning if you
want them to?

In my opinion, the difference between "hic" (this) and "ille" (that) is small but always significant. I didn't mean "Ille ager est latus, hic est angustus" and "Ille ager est latus, ille est angustus" have exactly the same meaning.
Meâ sententiâ, parvum at semper significans discrimen inter hic and ille pronomina demonstrativa. Nolui dicere haec eandem significationem habere: "Ille ager est latus, hic est angustus" et "Ille ager est latus, ille est angustus".
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: artistry in the use of HIC and ILLE

Postby Hampie » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:28 pm

adrianus wrote:
blutoonwithcarrotandnail wrote:In the identical context do they have the same meaning if you
want them to?

In my opinion, the difference between "hic" (this) and "ille" (that) is small but always significant. I didn't mean "Ille ager est latus, hic est angustus" and "Ille ager est latus, ille est angustus" have exactly the same meaning.
Meâ sententiâ, parvum at semper significans discrimen inter hic and ille pronomina demonstrativa. Nolui dicere haec eandem significationem habere: "Ille ager est latus, hic est angustus" et "Ille ager est latus, ille est angustus".

That’s not suppose to be an ‹et› or ‹atque›?
Här kan jag i alla fall skriva på svenska, eller hur?
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Re: artistry in the use of HIC and ILLE

Postby adrianus » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:52 pm

It is, Hampie. A slip.
Sic, Hampie. Lapsum curae!
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: artistry in the use of HIC and ILLE

Postby blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:30 am

adrianus wrote:In my opinion, the difference between "hic" (this) and "ille" (that) is small but always significant.

I didn't mean "Ille ager est latus, hic est angustus" and "Ille ager est latus, ille est angustus" have exactly the same meaning.


The slight difference is contextual correct?

Is there an inate difference in the translation of ILLE vs. HIC in this case?

ILLE = HIC

all differences are essentially contextual
the proof is in the pudding? (since they can be equal at times it is true that they are equal)


thank you
good day
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Re: artistry in the use of HIC and ILLE

Postby blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:30 am

adrianus wrote:In my opinion, the difference between "hic" (this) and "ille" (that) is small but always significant.

I didn't mean "Ille ager est latus, hic est angustus" and "Ille ager est latus, ille est angustus" have exactly the same meaning.


The slight difference is contextual correct?

Is there an inate difference in the translation of ILLE vs. HIC in this case?

ILLE = HIC

all differences are essentially contextual
the proof is in the pudding? (since they can be equal at times it is true that they are equal)


thank you
good day
377 gram sent 729 vocab german 850 dutch 83 italian cold 214 spanish 450 roman
17 demo 43 icelandic
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Re: artistry in the use of HIC and ILLE

Postby Sinister Petrus » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:18 pm

If ILLE = HIC, then THIS = THAT.

They are demonstrative adjectives/pronouns. No more no less.
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