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Perfect subjunctive or Future perfect

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Re: Perfect subjunctive or Future perfect

Postby thesaurus » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:42 am

calvinist wrote:I was definitely feeling that last night while working on my resume: Ubi est thesaurus meus?! :lol:


Here I am! (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Perfect subjunctive or Future perfect

Postby lauragibbs » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:54 am

Thesaure, you will find the entry for thesaurus back in December! :-)
http://verbosum.blogspot.com/2010/12/ve ... aurus.html

That blog has been a lot of fun for me because it is a way to combine something useful for beginning/intermediate students with my own random explorations through the enormous world of Latin proverbs!

I rely very much on the marvelous website by Henerik Kocher - AMAZING. He's done the biggest compilation of Latin proverbs I've ever seen:
Dicionário de Expressões e Frases Latinas
http://www.hkocher.info/minha_pagina/di ... onario.htm
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Re: Perfect subjunctive or Future perfect

Postby adrianus » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:11 pm

calvinist wrote:Adrianus, it is very easy to shake your fist at God and declare, "Gravity doesn't exist", but you haven't shown how my examples are wrong. English marks time on verbs by default, Chinese doesn't. English distinguishes singularity/plurality in nouns by default, Chinese doesn't. Thats my point. I don't understand why you're afraid to admit this. I'm not trying to dissilusion you about the beautiful system that is Latin. Maybe you think that I'm trying to say Latin is inferior to English or Chinese. I'm not. I find Latin to be the most beautiful language, that's my opinion. But I understand that other languages can communicate some ideas or shades of meaning more easily than Latin can. To deny this is to say that languages are all identical, which is ridiculous. Are you saying that languages only differ in vocabulary? There is no structural difference between languages?! The structure of a language (grammar) is the system used to connect ideas through relationships and express different meanings (time, aspect, gender, plurality, subject, passive experience of action, etc.) If we admit that languages are different grammatically, then we are admitting that different languages highlight different aspects of meaning. Do all the languages of the world have the same number of tenses? The same number of moods? No. So even though the speakers can and do understand these distinctions, the system of the language (its grammar) may not explicitly make these distinctions. I'm beginning to think that either you're just arguing for the sake of argument, you're not understanding me because I haven't expressed myself clearly, or maybe even you're sensitive to a perceived attack on Latin. I'm not attacking Latin, I'm trying my best to use examples to illustrate my point, and I don't like to argue for no reason. I really find it hard to believe that you would deny such an obvious reality. It's one of the main challenges in studying a foreign language. It's easy to say "no", please explain what you disagree with.

I'm sure you're a fine fellow, calvinist. Let's just say that not only do we use the English language differently but my sense of the ridiculous is different from yours. If you don't see that your examples may be viewed as silly, you won't be persuaded. You can always imagine it's me who is silly, but save your energy, I would say, by not fighting strawmen.

Scitus es, non dubito, calvinistice. Dicamus non solùm usum anglicae linguae sed etiam sensum absurdi qui inter nos variant. Si absurda non sentis exempla, ea aliter esse non suadeberis. Me ineptum esse habeas, si malis, at stramentitios hostes noli pugnare ut vim tuam conserves.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Perfect subjunctive or Future perfect

Postby calvinist » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:58 pm

So amicum doesn't have an additional semantic component tied to it compared with friend which marks gender?? Ok, I give up then. And no, I'm not a good man... words can't describe the horrible things I did in an earlier part of my life. My fellow Marines that didn't make it back home and have the opportunity to use the GI bill to pursue studies in such abstract fields as linguistics... they are better men than both you and I. Carry on devildogs, we remember and honor you.
Speech is my hammer, bang the world into shape, now let it fall! -Mos Def
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Re: Perfect subjunctive or Future perfect

Postby adrianus » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:34 pm

calvinist wrote:So amicum doesn't have an additional semantic component tied to it compared with friend which marks gender??

You're fighting strawmen again, calvinist. On that separate matter, it's good to honour the dead. I'm sorry for your loss of your fellow marines.
Hostem stramentitium iterùm certas, calvinistice. De illâ aliâ re, bonum est mortuos honorari. Amissio classiariorum sociorum tuorum me paenitet.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Perfect subjunctive or Future perfect

Postby calvinist » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:25 pm

By the way Adrianus, you inspired me to practice more Latin composition. I thought that translating my own thoughts would be boring (not to mention repetitive), so I decided to start working through some of Edgar Allan Poe's short stories translating them into Latin. I'm a fan of him; I don't know why I prefer dark art. My favorite composer for piano is Scriabin, who some say was borderline insane, if not over the threshold. We'll see how it goes, I'm not aiming for polished rhetoric, just a very basic translation for now. Anyway, thank you for making me feel guilty that I don't work hard enough at improving my Latin. :D
Speech is my hammer, bang the world into shape, now let it fall! -Mos Def
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Re: Perfect subjunctive or Future perfect

Postby adrianus » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:57 am

You are someone of no mean discernment. And when I said you had silly examples, all latinists are silly anyway. It can be a defiant gesture to value redundancy in a insane world but it, too, honours the dead.

Vir summae perspicacis es. Et in dicendo exempla absurda esse nihil refert, quod omnes latinistae absurdi. Signum pertinaciae est redundantiam exultari in mundo deridiculo at studium latini eâdem mortuos honorat.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Perfect subjunctive or Future perfect

Postby lauragibbs » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:46 pm

Had to laugh, I was visiting the Grex website at Torun (http://www.man.torun.pl/archives/info/grex), and saw they have this rule posted:

Aduersus hanc legem qui peccarint, foras eliminabuntur.

I wonder if the person who wrote that thought it was future perfect or perfect subjunctive... :-)
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Re: Perfect subjunctive or Future perfect

Postby Interaxus » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:20 am

Adriane,

Thanks for your indefatigable unfuzziness.

Cheers,
Int
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Re: Perfect subjunctive or Future perfect

Postby adrianus » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:12 pm

Ah, I knew I was missing something, Interaxus. So you've got it, my indefatigable unfuzziness. You're welcome.

Io, novi aliquid mihi deesse, Interaxe! Tu ità habes indefessam inopiam vacuitatis meam. Noli mentionem facere.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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