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Help with Livy!

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Help with Livy!

Postby bryann » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:46 am

I'm having trouble trying to translate this section of the passage about Horatius' defending the bridge against the Etruscan army.

Pudor deinde commovit aciem, et clamore sublato undique in unum hostem tela coniciunt. Quae cum in obiecto cuncta scuto haesissent, neque ille minus obstinatus ingenti pontem obtineret gradu, iam impetu conabantur detrudere virum, cum simul fragor rupti pontis, simul clamor Romanorum, alacritate perfecti operis sublatus, pavore subito impetum sustinuit. Tum Cocles, "Tiberine pater", inquit, "te precor ut haec arma et hunc militem propitio flumine accipias!" Ita sic armitus in Tiberim desiluit, multisque superincidentibus telis incolumis ad suos tranavit.

Then moved by a point of sense of shame, and with the shouts rained from all sides, they threw javelins at one enemy. When he had thrown the whole of the spear, Horatius neither less having been stubborn...
(this is the part where it confused me, hopefully my translation was right)
... Then Cocles said "Father Tiber, I pray to you in order to take these weapons and these solders with favourable waters!" So in this way he jumped in the Tiber with his armour, and with many spears falling from above he swam to safety.

I worked some parts out but my main problem is word order and agreement. Any type of advice and help with translation would be much appreciated :)
bryann
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Re: Help with Livy!

Postby lauragibbs » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:39 pm

Maybe it will be help to see it broken up into the sense units. It's really important to just look at the Latin for its own sake and not focus on the English translation - and it is VERY important not to smooth over the Latin by free-associating English words with the Latin that you are not sure about.

For example, you said "When he had thrown the whole of the spear"
But this is the Latin:
Quae cum in obiecto cuncta scuto haesissent...
When (the spears) in the put-against - all - shield stuck...
When the spears all stuck in the shield he had raised up against them...
But really, rather than translating, if it is the word order that is getting you down (and Livy is a bit artful), you might just try writing it out with a simpler word order, rather than translating into English:
Cum (tela) cuncta haesissent in obiecto scuto...

Maybe this segmented version will help:

Pudor deinde
commovit aciem,
et,
clamore sublato,
undique
in unum hostem
tela coniciunt.
Quae cum
in obiecto cuncta scuto haesissent
neque ille minus obstinatus
ingenti pontem obtineret gradu,
iam impetu conabantur detrudere virum,
cum
simul fragor rupti pontis,
simul clamor Romanorum,
alacritate perfecti operis sublatus,
pavore
subito impetum sustinuit.
Tum Cocles, "Tiberine pater", inquit,
"te precor
ut haec arma et hunc militem
propitio flumine accipias!"
Ita sic armatus
in Tiberim desiluit,
multisque superincidentibus telis,
incolumis
ad suos tranavit.
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Re: Help with Livy!

Postby adrianus » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:22 pm

bryann wrote:Pudor deinde commovit aciem...Then moved by a point of sense of shame...I worked some parts out but my main problem is word order and agreement

Don't forget the grammar! // Noli grammaticam negligare!
"Shame then grips/moves the battle line..."
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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