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Supine

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Supine

Postby brookter » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:15 pm

Salvēte, amīcī.

A couple of questions about the supine, if you'd be so kind...

a) How widely do we interpret the idea of 'motion verbs' - can you use it with quaerere, for example, where there is a hint of motion,figuratively at least?; and

b) The examples I have seen (in LLPSI) are relating to intransitive ideas, I think. e.g ambulātum exīre. Can the supine also be used for transitive ideas?

E.g. can I legitimately say, in response to the question Unde venit tabellārius and quem quaerit? the following:
Tusculō venit et erum iānitōris epistulum dātum quaerit or must I use the infinitive here?

Many thanks

David
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Re: Supine

Postby brookter » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:22 pm

Aargh - sorry, just found the answer to my second question (='Yes'), so please ignore that.

But I'd still be interested in the first question - how far does the concept of a motion verb extend.

Thanks

David
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Re: Supine

Postby adrianus » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:14 pm

Si supino utaris, fortassè hoc: // If you want to use the supine, maybe this (?):
"He comes from Tusculum to look for the porter's master so he might deliver [him] a letter."
"Tusculo venit quaesitum erum janitoris ut [illi] epistulam tradat."
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Supine

Postby adrianus » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:52 pm

brookter wrote:...how far does the concept of a motion verb extend.

I think you may be thinking about this in A&G:
Hoc apud A&G tractas, nisi fallor:
A&G, §509 wrote:NOTE 2.—The supine in -um is occasionally used when motion is merely implied.

The way to think of it, I suspect, is to believe that a supine can be used with a motion verb (venire, ire etc) for situations where motion is less obvious; for example, "amatum [the supine] iri" is like "amaturos esse" = "that they are going to love" (no actual motion).

Meliùs est ità comprendere, ut suspicor: licet supino uti cum verbo motûs (ut venire, ut ire), etsi motûs non manifesti. Exempli gratiâ, "amatum [supinum] iri", quod synonymum "amaturos esse" verbi est et motûs inops.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Supine

Postby brookter » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:42 pm

Adriane,

Thanks for both posts. I hadn't seen the A&G entry (managed to confuse myself without it...) but your explanation is very helpful.

Regards

David.
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Re: Supine

Postby Perseus » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:12 am

Have you seen this dedicated forum to LLPSI?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11400
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