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Question about interrogative pronouns

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Question about interrogative pronouns

Postby Smythe » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:02 pm

I'm kinda having a hard time wrapping my mind around interrogative and relative pronouns. I guess the problem is that they are both the same, except for a few words. That's where I'm getting stuck.

In the Latine Disco for Orberg's Lingua Latina, it says, "At the end of the chapter, you find sentences with both the interrogative and the relative pronouns, e.g. Quis est puer qui ridet? In the feminine, the two pronouns are identical: Quae est puella quae plorat (the relative quae refers to puella)"

In Wheelock's Latin, it says, "The interrogative pronoun quis? quid? is declined in the plural exactly as the relative pronoun is. In the singular, also, it follows the pattern of the relative with TWO exceptions: (1) the masculine and the feminine have the same forms; (2) the nominative forms have the distinct spelling quis, quid.

So, according to Orberg, there IS a difference between the nominative masculine singular and the nominative feminine singular interrogative pronouns (quis and quae). According to Wheelock, there's not a difference (both would be quis).

So, the question is multiple choice:
a) Orberg doesn't know what he's talking about
b) Wheelock has his head in his nether regions
c) They are actually both right, and the Romans followed both formats
d) If c is true, screw both of those guys for being so confusing.

Thanks,
-smythe
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Re: Question about interrogative pronouns

Postby Hampie » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:20 am

Hmm… Now I’m curious. I think I will go check my grammar :3. Tomorrow...
Här kan jag i alla fall skriva på svenska, eller hur?
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Re: Question about interrogative pronouns

Postby adrianus » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:48 am

There are two types of interrogative pronoun, substantive (quis, quis, quid) and adjective (qui, quae, quod = what kind of"). Wheelock is referring to the substantive only, I reckon.

Duo interrogativorum pronominum genera sunt: substantivum et adjectivum enim, quod adjectivum simile est relativi. Id quod è grammaticâ de Wheelock citas substantivum solum refert, ut puto.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Question about interrogative pronouns

Postby pmda » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:29 pm

According to Gavin Betts' tables (Teach Yourself) Quis is allowable for both M. and F. Nom. in Interrogative pronouns:

Masc. quis/qui

Fem: quis /quae

Neut: quid

So it seems they're both right.....But I'm not sure about the 'substantive' comment above...so having thrown that observation in I'll withdraw and watch carefully.
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Re: Question about interrogative pronouns

Postby Smythe » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:20 pm

adrianus wrote:There are two types of interrogative pronoun, substantive (quis, quis, quid) and adjective (qui, quae, quod = what kind of"). Wheelock is referring to the substantive only, I reckon.


Adrianus,

Thanks for the reply, but in Orberg's example, he's using 'quae' to say 'who' rather than 'what kind of''. Is that allowed?

In a supplement to LL called 'Colloquia Personae', this is repeated in other sentences:

Quae est puella quae dormit? Puella quae dormit est Iūlia, fīlia Aemiliae. (Who is the girl who sleeps? The girl who sleeps is Julia, Aemilia's daughter.)
Quae est ancilla quae cantat? Ancilla quae cantat est Dēlia. (Who is the maid who sings? The maid who sings is Delia.)

I mean to say, should you always use 'quis' unless you know ahead of time that the answer to your question will have a feminie gender?

Thanks again,
-smythe
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Re: Question about interrogative pronouns

Postby adrianus » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:09 am

Smythe wrote:...but in Orberg's example, he's using 'quae' to say 'who' rather than 'what kind of''. Is that allowed?
Most definitely, and "which girl is it?", I think, too. // Sané, et anglicè "which girl", ut credo.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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