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Some poetry from Lingua Latina

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Some poetry from Lingua Latina

Postby Einhard » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:57 am

Salvete Omnes,

I'm working on the penultimate chapter of Lingua Latina at the moment, and there's a few lines which are causing me some difficulty. Actaully, since the chapter deals with poetry, there's slightly more than a few! The first is as follows:

Tu cursus spectas, ego te- spectemus uterque
quod iuvat, atque oculos pascat uterque suos!


You watch the races, I you- let us both watch
that which is pleasing, and let each feed the eyes!


I think I've translated that one correctly, but not entirely sure about the second uterque.

Then there's

Vincor, et ingenium sumptis revocatur ab armis,
resque domi gestas et mea bella


I am defeated, and my genius, having been undertaken/assumed by arms,is recalled,
I sing exploits of the home and my love.


Ok, so it's not exactly going to win any prizes for services to Latin translation, but it's the best I can do! Anyone care to set me straight?

Now my screen is going all wobbly again, so shall have to continue below...
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Re: Some poetry from Lingua Latina

Postby Einhard » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:42 am

Here's a fragment from Catullus, the final lines of which have me scratching my head:

Dein, cum milia multa fecerimus,
conturbabimus illa, ne sciamus,
aut ne quis malus invidere possit,
cum tantum sciat esse basiorum


Then, when we have done many thousands [kisses],
we will throw those into confusion, so that we do not know,
or that a wicked person cannot curse,
when he knows that there are so may kisses


Here, I'm regarding illa as referring to kisses but I also think it could plausibly refer to people too. So the kisses are throw into confusion, and also those who might wish the lovers ill.

Further on, there's a sampling from Martial:

Laudat, amat, cantat nostros mea Roma libellos,
meque sinus omnes, me manus omnis habet.
Ecce rubet quidam, pallet, stupet, oscitat, odit.
Hoc volo: nunc nobis carmina nostra pkacent


My Rome praises, loves, sings my book,
and every fold, and every hand has me.
Here someone blushes, pales, marvels, yawns, hates.
I wish this: now our poems are pleasing to us.


My main problem with this is the fact that sinus omnes is plural, and yet there is no corresponding plural verb. I assume that it is governed instead by habet.

One or two of the epigrams are also causing me some difficulty:

Versiculos in me narratur scribere Cinna.
Non scribit, cuius carmina nemo legit!


Cinna is told to write small verses about me.
He is not writing, whose poems no one reads!
I think this is correct, and that it has just lost something in translation, rather than vice versa!

Nubere Paula cupit nobis, ego ducere Paulam
nolo: anus est; vellem si magis esset anus!


Paula wishes to marry us [me], I do not wish to marry
Paula: she is old; I would wish if she was more old!
I fingured this one out as I was typing here. Who says Textkit doesn't inpsire?!


And, to finish with the poetry, there's:

Cui legisse satis non est epigrammata centum,
nil illi satis est, Caediciane, mali!


For whom a hundred epigrams is not enough to have read,
nothing is enough, Caediciane, to that wicked person!
I think I've done this one some justice, but again, any comments/corrections are appreciated.
Last edited by Einhard on Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Some poetry from Lingua Latina

Postby Einhard » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:59 am

And finally, there's one problematic prose phrase:

in iis haec quae scripta sunt in alios poetas

From the context, I take this to mean beginning with these which were written against other poets, but I haven't seen in iis used like this before.

Thanks in advance for the help...
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Re: Some poetry from Lingua Latina

Postby adrianus » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:24 pm

uterque = each others'

Vincor, et ingenium sumptis revocatur ab armis,
resque domi gestas et mea bella cano

I am lost/won over, and my inspiration is called away from taking up arms
and I sing of domestic things and of my own struggles

Dein, cum milia multa fecerimus,
conturbabimus illa, ne sciamus,
aut ne quis malus invidere possit,
cum tantum sciat esse basiorum

Then, when we will have finished many thousands of kisses, we'll mix them up, so that we won't know when there are so many, or so that some mean person couldn't get envious were he to know when there are so many.

illa = neutrius generis pluralis numeri (not people, but kisses, "basium")
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Some poetry from Lingua Latina

Postby modus.irrealis » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:36 pm

Einhard wrote:Vincor, et ingenium sumptis revocatur ab armis,
resque domi gestas et mea bella

Just to add to adrianus's post, "sumptis" can only go with "armis" here, even though "revocatur" comes between them. So it's "from the arms that have been taken up" = "from the taking up of arms" (as in adrianus's translation), since it's common for Latin to use noun + participle where we would use the -ing form of the verb in English.

My main problem with this is the fact that sinus omnes is plural, and yet there is no corresponding plural verb. I assume that it is governed instead by habet.

That's the idea but I wouldn't say governed. It's just from the context you could easily supply the verb "habent", which you could consider as having been ellipted.

Versiculos in me narratur scribere Cinna.
Non scribit, cuius carmina nemo legit!


Cinna is told to write small verses about me.
He is not writing, whose poems no one reads!
I think this is correct, and that it has just lost something in translation, rather than vice versa!

"Cinna is said to write verses against me", just to make explicit the hostile sense of "in". The second line is perfect, where "cuius" refers back to the subject of "scribit". I'm scratching my head trying to come up with something in English with the same form -- what I would say naturally is something like "You're not writing, if nobody's reading what you write."

Einhard wrote:in iis haec quae scripta sunt in alios poetas

From the context, I take this to mean beginning with these which were written against other poets, but I haven't seen in iis used like this before.

I would take "in iis" simply with "scripta sunt": "these things which were written in these (poems) against the other poets".
Last edited by modus.irrealis on Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some poetry from Lingua Latina

Postby adrianus » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:13 pm

It can't be "by arms", modus irrealis; it has to be "[away/off] from arms".
Non "by" sed "from" anglicè "ab armis" vertendum est, mode irrealis.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Some poetry from Lingua Latina

Postby modus.irrealis » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:31 pm

You're right of course -- I'll fix my post.
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Re: Some poetry from Lingua Latina

Postby adrianus » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:38 pm

Cui legisse satis non est epigrammata centum,
nil illi satis est, Caediciane, mali!


no amount of punishment is enough for him, Caecidianus!
Last edited by adrianus on Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Some poetry from Lingua Latina

Postby Einhard » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:38 pm

Thanks for the helpful responses you two. Latin poetry still leaves me scratching my head more often than not. I'm just thankful that I'll be dealing mostly with relatively simple prose translations in future!!
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Re: Some poetry from Lingua Latina

Postby adrianus » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:01 pm

That's not a rash on my head. It comes from scratching, too.
Non eruptio id quod vides in capite mihi sed coquè scalpturae.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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