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Translation

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Translation

Postby Einhard » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:18 pm

Salvete,

I wonder if anyone would be so kind as to look over my translation of the following passage and point out any errors. I'm fairly confident about it in general, but there are one or two points where I'm not so sure.

Orator imitetur illum cui summa vis dicendi conceditur, Demosthenem, in quo tantum studium fuisse dicitur ut impedimenta naturae diligentia industriaque superaret. Nam cum ita balbus esset ut illius ipsius artis cui studeret primam litteram non posset dicere, perfecit meditando ut nemo planius loqueretur. Deinde, cum spiritus eius esset angustior, spiritu continendo multum perfecit in dicendo; et coniectis in os calculis, summa voce versus multos uno spiritu pronuntiare consuescebat; neque id faciebat stans uno in loco sed ambulans.

Let the orator imitate that man to/for whom the highest force/power is conceded to be spoken, Demosthenes, in whom it is said that zeal/study existed to such an extent that he overcame natural handicaps through diligence and industry. For when he was stuttering so that he was unable to say the first letter of that very art itself to/for which he studied, he practiced thoroughly so that nobody spoke more clearly. Then when his breath was lower, he much accomplished/brought about the breath to be contained in [the speech] to be spoken; and pebbles put in his mouth, he became used to proclaiming many verses through his highest voice in one breath; and nor did he do this standing in one location but walking.

As you've probably noticed, my translation of "perfecit meditando" and "spiritu continendo multum perfecit in dicendo" is somewhat halting. I can't for the life of me though, see how it could be rendered any differently. Any suggestions?
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Re: Translation

Postby adrianus » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:24 am

Salve Einharde

For despite stuttering to the extent that he couldn't say the first letter of that very art which he studied (Rhetoric), by practising he succeeded to the extent that no one spoke more clearly.

Deinde cum = as soon as his breath became more restricted, he accomplished a lot speaking with concentrated breath; and he formed the habit of reciting lots of verses in a single breath at the top of his voice with pebbles stuffed into his mouth.

"neque" = "nor" = "and not", but not "and nor"
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Translation

Postby thesaurus » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:39 pm

Here's a painting of Demosthenes in action, declaiming to the sea to practice his voice (coniecti in os calculi not pictured).
Ecce tabula quae Demosthenen ostendit in pontum declamantem ut vocem melioret. (coniecti in os calculi non liquent).
Image
Last edited by thesaurus on Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Translation

Postby Einhard » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:48 pm

adrianus wrote:Salve Einharde

For despite stuttering to the extent that he couldn't say the first letter of that very art which he studied (Rhetoric), by practising he succeeded to the extent that no one spoke more clearly.

Deinde cum = as soon as his breath became more restricted, he accomplished a lot speaking with concentrated breath; and he formed the habit of reciting lots of verses in a single breath at the top of his voice with pebbles stuffed into his mouth.

"neque" = "nor" = "and not", but not "and nor"


Thanks for that, but I'm still somewhat confused over the two phrases I mentioned. First off: "perfecit metitando". Am I right to translate the second word as the gerundive, "by going to be practiced/by to be practiced"? And if so, why is it used in the context of that sentence? Wouldn't something like the present act. part, "metante" be better?

The same query applies to "dicendo". A literal translation would be gerundive "by going to be spoken/to be spoken". I know that idiom has to be accounted for, but still, wouldn't "dicente" be more appropriate?
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Re: Translation

Postby thesaurus » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:56 pm

Einhard wrote:Thanks for that, but I'm still somewhat confused over the two phrases I mentioned. First off: "perfecit metitando". Am I right to translate the second word as the gerundive, "by going to be practiced/by to be practiced"? And if so, why is it used in the context of that sentence? Wouldn't something like the present act. part, "metante" be better?

The same query applies to "dicendo". A literal translation would be gerundive "by going to be spoken/to be spoken". I know that idiom has to be accounted for, but still, wouldn't "dicente" be more appropriate?


"meditando" and "in dicendo" are both gerunds (not gerundives). That is, they are verbal nouns in the ablative. "He accomplished through/by practicing," and "he accomplished much in speaking" [i.e., he accomplished a lot with his speaking].
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Translation

Postby Einhard » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:59 pm

[*]Slpas his palm on his brow!![*]

Ah the gerund! It completely slipped my mind! I feel like running down to the sea and roaring and shouting a bit myself now!!

Thanks
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