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Translation help for Medieval sentence

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Translation help for Medieval sentence

Postby autophile » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:07 pm

Salvete,

This one is also from Steganographia by Trithemius. I think I pretty much got the first and third parts, but the part in the middle is driving me crazy:

...ipsamque fidem Catholicam secundum traditionem S. Romanae Ecclesiae suscepi a cunabulis, baptizatus in nomine Patris, & Filii, & Spiritus sancti, quam cum ipsa & universali Christianorum Ecclesia teneo, credo, & quam diu vixero, cum Dei auxilio semper inviolata firmiter servans, corde, ore & opere tenebo, nec unquam ab ipsa deviare quacumque occasione intendo.


...and I undertook from childhood the Catholic faith itself according to the tradition of the Roman Catholic Church, baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, with which themselves I support, believe, and live daily by the universal Catholic Church, with the help of God serving always inviolate, I will support with heart, speech, and deed, and never at any time do I intend to stray from themselves for any reason whatsoever.

Any help is appreciated!

Valete,

--Rob
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Re: Translation help for Medieval sentence

Postby ptolemyauletes » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:22 pm

ipsa is referring to the CAtholic faith. It is feminine singular. Let's use teneo as support, as you have done.
'Which I support with itself and the Universal Christian Church, and I believe, and as long as I live, always protecting it steadfastly inviolate with the help of God, I will support with heart, speech and deed, and never at any time do I intend to stray from IT at any time whatsoever.

The only odd bits to me are the meaning of cum ipsa - with it - seems a bit funny, and the case of inviolata - seems like it should be accusative, since servans takes an accusative, but I think we can rationalise that servans is referring back to the quam, which is accusative, while inviolata is referring to the ipsa, which is ablative... odd, but it could make sense.
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Re: Translation help for Medieval sentence

Postby autophile » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:41 pm

Thanks -- I think what tripped me up was what ipsa was referring to, so I got the case, gender, and number completely wrong!

Thanks again,

--Rob
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Re: Translation help for Medieval sentence

Postby adrianus » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:11 am

"Inviolata" is a typo for "inviolatam" or "inviolatã" with the tilde for a dropped "m", ptolyauletes, autophile. [It's the accusative or dative case with "servans", isn't it?]
Erratum typographicum, ptolemyauletes autophileque, est "inviolata" quod alibi "inviolatam" (seu "inviolatã" cum titulo pro "inviolatam") scriptum est. [nonnè "servire" verbum casui accusativo vel dativo servit?]
Vide http://www.esotericarchives.com/tritheim/stegano.htm

ipsamque fidem = and that very faith [the one referred to]
quam cum ipsâ & universali Christianorum Ecclesiâ teneo, credo = which [faith] I hold and believe in, along with the selfsame [drop "&" in English // "&" per se anglicè demittatur] universal Christian Church [i.e., in the Holy Roman tradition he referred to, distinguishing faith and church // id est, Sanctâ Romanâ Ecclesiâ, cuius traditionem citavit, quam â fide distinguit]
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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