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lingua Latina capitulum septimum

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lingua Latina capitulum septimum

Postby quickly » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:09 am

hunc locum ex capitulo septimo in Lingua Latina non intellego:
(I do not understand this passage from chapter seven in Lingua Latina:)
(Hopefully that was correct)

"Aemilia cum Dēliā ē peristylō in ātrium intrat, laeta ad Iūlium adit eumque salūtat. Aeminila vīro suō ōsculum dat. Iūlius Aemiliae ōsculum dat."

I am having a problem with laeta, which I assume is being used substantively, as in: "then the happy (woman) goes to Iulius and greets him." It obviously isn't an adverbialized form of laetus, and I don't understand how it is functioning. The reason I would argue against a substantive adjective is because the authors aren't using deinde or dein, which Wheelock's would have me expect, and they don't use tum, which has been introduced. I suppose it could also be an adjective modifying Aemilia. A crude translation is below:

"Aemilia enters, accompanied by Delia, out of the peristyla, into the atrium, (...) goes to Iulius and greets him. Aemilia gives a kiss to her man (husband). Iulius gives to Aemilia a kiss."
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Re: lingua Latina capitulum septimum

Postby quickly » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:55 am

A second question. I can't figure out the function of tantum in this sentence. I know it is either an adjective, tantus, -a, -um which means "so great, many, or large," and an adverb meaning "so much, far; only," however neither fits with the following sentence from chapter eight:

Quae nūllam aut parvam pecūniam habent ōrnāmenta aspiciunt tantum, nōn emunt.

Which makes sense without tantum, and sounds unidiomatic with it: "Those (women who) have no or little money see, not buy, the jewelry (tantum: so much, for such a long time?).
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Re: lingua Latina capitulum septimum

Postby adrianus » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:52 am

Salve quickly/celeriter
"happy" = an adjective in apposition, I think, adjectivum appositivum est, ut puto, which can be translated into English as/quod ità in sermones anglicos verti potest: "happy, in her happiness, in a happy state, happily".
aspiciunt tantum, nōn emunt = "they merely look [at], they do not buy".
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: lingua Latina capitulum septimum

Postby nov.ialiste » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:12 pm

"Aemilia cum Dēliā ē peristylō in ātrium intrat, laeta ad Iūlium adit eumque salūtat."

I would translate it as an adverb in English:

Aemilia along with Delia enters the peristylum from the main room, and happily approaches Julius and greets him.

I believe this use of an adjective where English would use the corresponding adverb is quite common in Latin. For example, from a letter:

"Hanc epistulam ad te laetus scribo."

"I happily (being happy) write this letter to you."

I quote the note about that sentence in Greenough, D'Ooge and Daniell, Second Year Latin:

"laetus: the Latin has a tendency to use an adjective modifying the subject instead of an adverb modifying the verb. Of course if one does a thing 'gladly' he is himself 'glad' in doing it."
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Re: lingua Latina capitulum septimum

Postby quickly » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:06 am

Thank you adrianus and nov.ialiste: both explanations complement one another and make sense (the adjective used adpositionally functions in idiomatic English adverbially; but in Latin, is attributed to the subject performing the action). Is the rule specific, or could you make any number of like sentences, e.g., "acer vir te asper condemnavit" = "acer vir te atrociter condemnavit"; "hic liber ex librarium clandestinus furari" = hic liber ex librarium silentiose furari"?

It's interesting that Latin (or merely Lingua Latina) has a tendency to "doubly express" its prepositional phrases. For instance, in the sentence: "e peristylo in atrium intrat," where English would drop the preposition, but Latin - I assume - uses it to express active motion. This is such a cool language.
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Re: lingua Latina capitulum septimum

Postby adrianus » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:08 am

Salve quickly
No problem // libenter

"acer vir te asper condemnavit" seems OK to me. // Bonum est, ut mihi videtur.

"hic liber ex librarium clandestinus furari" has some mistakes, I think. // Hoc malè fictum esse credo.
Clandestinus hunc librum ex librario furatur = "Sneakily, he steals this book from the library."
Hunc librum ex librario clandestinè/silentiosè furari = "to clandestinely steal this book", and NOT "hunc librum ex librario clandestinus furari" ("the clandestine one to steal this book out of the library"!?), NOR "hunc librum ex librario clandestinum furari" ("to steal this clandestine book out of the library").

I'm not a latin teacher. I just like to try to answer questions (in Latin and English) to myself learn. So don't be surprised if someone corrects what I say.
Magister latini non sum, magis qui quaestionibus (et latinè et anglicè) respondere conor ut discam. Ne demireris ergo si alius quod dico corriget.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: lingua Latina capitulum septimum

Postby quickly » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:15 pm

Thank you! I forgot that furare is deponent, so of course "furari" is the passive infinitive, and you are absolutely correct! I suppose a better sentence would have been "ille vir hunc librum ex librario clandestinus/silentiose ademi/abstuli" or "hunc librum illo viro ex librario clandestinus/silentiose adimebatur/aufebatur" (those should be 3rd sing. imp. passives). Of course, I could use furare, and I think you are right that "furatur" is correct, and my cases and verb usage were wrong.
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Re: lingua Latina capitulum septimum

Postby adrianus » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:06 pm

Salve quickly/celeriter
"ademit/abstulit" + "auferebatur" + "ab illo viro" do you mean to say? // visne dicere?
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: lingua Latina capitulum septimum

Postby quickly » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:40 pm

I meant to say:

"that man stole this book from the library clandestinely"
ille vir hunc librum ex librario clandestinus ademit.

and

"hic librum ab illo viro ex librario cnadestinus auferebatur/ademibatur"
this book was stolen from the library by that (clandestine) man (/clandestinely).

...as you have pointed out to me // ...ceu mihi ostendisti
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