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Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

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Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Kiki112 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:00 pm

I have an exam on Friday morning, I should know this, however I'm having some issues
I'm definitely a noob :cry:

Here's a pic of my work (brightened it up so it's visible, damn my handwring looks like bad now xD) *click me*
Just open it for reference to see what I did since I'm commenting on it below.

Here's the text if you can't read some of my handwriting.
Metamorphoses I

In 91
poena metusque aberant, nec verba minantia fixo


I literally have no idea how to do the beginning
I thought the 5th foot is always a dactyl?
But I got a spondee because the first A is followed by nt, which should mean it's long
I is not a vowel since it's followed by a vowel (a)

93 beginning
iudicis ora sui, sed erant sine vindice tuti.

95
montibus in liquidas pinus descenderat undas,

liqui and ibus I have no idea

Also, in 96 I wrote sua with 2 short on u and a, looks very wrong, is it? :D

98
non tuba derecti, non aeris cornua flexi,

Cornua same thing as 96, is it ua correct?

99
non galeae, non ensis erat: sine militis usu

nensis erat sine is the part I didn't get
And 100
mollia securae peragebant otia gentes.

mollia securae perage
o long, ae long, and I know nothing else
I is not a vowel xD

Any help appreciated :)

I'll type my work below if the image is a problem, just hit me up, need help :)
Hodie mihi, cras tibi.
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Hylander » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:33 pm

mi-nan-ti-a is the syllabification. υ _ υ υ

Spondees sometimes do occur in the fifth foot, but that happens rarely and when it does it's a special effect.

non galeae, non ensis erat is not quite right (galeae, not galae), nor is peragebant otia gentes.

You got one non right--that should be a clue to the other one.

-ia is usually scanned as two syllables, with short -i-.

You're generally on the right track, but I'm reluctant to give you more help at this point. You need to do a little more work on this on your own.
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby mwh » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:46 pm

We’ll solve your problems for you after your exam. Post again then to remind us. Meanwhile, for your pains, we will tell you that –ia can scan as two shorts.

EDIT. Well so much for that. Hylander has given you the help. You should tell your teacher.
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Kiki112 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:19 pm

Hylander wrote:mi-nan-ti-a is the syllabification. υ _ υ υ

Spondees sometimes do occur in the fifth foot, but that happens rarely and when it does it's a special effect.

non galeae, non ensis erat is not quite right (galeae, not galae), nor is peragebant otia gentes.

You got one non right--that should be a clue to the other one.

-ia is usually scanned as two syllables, with short -i-.

You're generally on the right track, but I'm reluctant to give you more help at this point. You need to do a little more work on this on your own.


How come i isn't a consonant?

Okay, so that makes

non gale|ae, no|n ensis erat: sine| militis| usu
_ υ υ| _ _ | ? | _ υ υ|_ _

mollia| secur|ae pera|gebant|otia|gentes
_ υυ? |_ _ | _ υ υ | |_ _ | _ υ υ| _ _
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Kiki112 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:23 pm

mwh wrote:We’ll solve your problems for you after your exam. Post again then to remind us. Meanwhile, for your pains, we will tell you that –ia can scan as two shorts.

EDIT. Well so much for that. Hylander has given you the help. You should tell your teacher.


I'm not asking you to solve my problems for me, I'm asking you to teach me :D
It's a section dedicated to learning latin, right? :)
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Hylander » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:05 am

Well, you seem to be learning. So far, what you have now is right.

Try it again until you have the whole passage scanned. Use a dictionary and a grammar to determine the vowel quantities you don't know off-hand. And then take note and remember the quantities.

Once you have the whole passage scanned, post your solution, and we'll tell you whether anything is wrong. Once you get it right, post a translation so that we can make sure you understand it, and we'll give you some pointers on reading Latin hexameters.

Then read the whole passage several times, giving effect to longs and shorts, so that you get it in your ear. Once you have the rhythm in your ear, it will be much easier to scan.

You should also mark of the caesuras--have you been taught how to do that yet? If not, we'll show you how.

-i- is a consonant between vowels; otherwise, it's generally (although not exclusively) treated as a vowel.

I think the "Golden Age" was the passage on which I learned to scan hexameters in 1961, I think.
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Kiki112 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:52 pm

Hylander wrote:Well, you seem to be learning. So far, what you have now is right.

Try it again until you have the whole passage scanned. Use a dictionary and a grammar to determine the vowel quantities you don't know off-hand. And then take note and remember the quantities.



I don't want to ask dumb questions, but I can't find anything that could help me in the dictionary
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Hylander » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:10 pm

The dictionary and a grammar will give you the quantity of vowels.
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Kiki112 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:18 pm

Hylander wrote:The dictionary and a grammar will give you the quantity of vowels.


Image
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby bedwere » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:26 pm

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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Timothée » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:45 pm

bedwere wrote:Get a better dictionary.

True, though L&S has no more vowel lengths marked for ensis (even though the lemma is bigger).
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Hylander » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:47 pm

You can use this on-line grammar to look up vowel quantities in declensions and conjugations:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0001&redirect=true

It's difficult to use, however. Alternatively, your textbook should mark the quantities.
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Hylander » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:49 pm

L&S has no more vowel lengths marked for ensis


If vowels are not marked with a macron, you can assume that they are short for present purposes.
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Timothée » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:53 pm

Hylander wrote:If vowels are not marked with a macron, you can assume that they are short for present purposes.

I know, I was just putting myself in Kristijan’s place there: the information on vowel lengths is the same in those two dictionaries (on the word ensis).

Always when learning a new language, one also needs to learn how to use a dictionary for it (the practices and customs will often be similar in different dictionaries for, say, Latin).
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Kiki112 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:42 pm

I've tried a couple of words, dunno how to see the quantity of vowels
Image

In the textbook I only have words inside the textboox, not for Metamorphoses :mrgreen:
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Timothée » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:05 pm

Kiki112 wrote:In the textbook I only have words inside the textboox, not for Metamorphoses :mrgreen:

Kristijan, Hylander was talking about “vowel quantities in declensions and conjugations”. Your textbook should show them.
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby mwh » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:53 am

Kiki has evidently been taught that a vowel followed by two consonants scans long. In her/his first post, on minantia: “the first A is followed by nt, which should mean it's long.” So ENSis can be correctly scanned without knowing about the E itself.

I fear we may be sowing confusion.
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Hylander » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:11 pm

dunno how to see the quantity of vowels


Click on Lewis & Short or Elem. Lewis. Those are dictionaries.

And, as mwh reminded you, don't forget the rule that a vowel followed by two consonants scans as long.
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Barry Hofstetter » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:22 pm

Hylander wrote:
dunno how to see the quantity of vowels


Click on Lewis & Short or Elem. Lewis. Those are dictionaries.

And, as mwh reminded you, don't forget the rule that a vowel followed by two consonants scans as long.


And this happens even when the second consonant starts a new word... :shock:

There are actually plenty of online resources for learning dactylic hexameter that can supplement your classroom experience:

http://www.skidmore.edu/academics/class ... s/metrica/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYD1zTfTHMY
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Kiki112 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:06 pm

click me

A friend sent me this, however I'm confused how can iudicis and ensis start with a short, how are there parts that aren't a spondee nor a dactyl

Is this correct?
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Timothée » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:51 pm

Here’s a picture from a dictionary (Menge) for the word iudex.

Try to figure out the vowel lengths of this word (the little “v” on top of e means that the vowel is followed by two consonants and thus the syllable scans long).

As you wrote in your first post, when two consonants follow a vowel, the syllable is scanned long. That is the case of the first syllable of ensis.
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby mwh » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:18 pm

Unless I’m mistaken, L&S does not indicate the quantity of hidden vowels, such as the e in ensis. (Nor does the OLD, a much better dictionary.) But for scansional purposes that does not matter.
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby Kiki112 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:32 pm

Anyone willing to show me how to pronounce and read this, perhaps finish this, if willing to over skype or something, I'll reward him with 10$ over PayPal, not much, but a bit for your effort, so it's not like I'm leeching.
Hit me up for my username, should be done tommorow.
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Re: Ovid Metamorphoses Scan 89-100

Postby bedwere » Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:58 am

Listen to this for free and, if you like it, you can try to imitate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMS79Tg ... AFB120235D
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