Modern Songs in Koine Greek

[LSorenson]

Hello all,

I've made it a pastime while singing praise songs to see if I can sing them in Greek, quickly thinking of the Greek words while the rest of the congregation sings in English (I would not recommend this in a small church). You quickly become keenly aware of how slow you are, not only do you have to think of the word, you have to get the form right. After a while, I started writing the songs down and then trying to correct them. I hope to get a number of them posted for all to enjoy, however, translation into Greek is not always easy, there are so many songs about feeling, etc. And getting the syllables and accents to match is hard, and getting the right word - priceless. How indeed would one say in Greek "You say goodbye, I say Hello." (by the Beatles)

So I am beginning to post a couple of the songs. I'm not totally happy with them. I'm trying to use the Koine vocabulary of 100 B.C to 200 A.D. Also I am using stress for the accent; but not all the tunes require stress in a certain spot. Any suggestions are welcome. The master page is found at http://www.letsreadgreek.com/songs/default.htm.

Two songs I have posted are

• Untitled Hymn (Come to Jesus) by Chris Rice http://www.letsreadgreek.com/songs/breathe/breathe.htm
  Breathe (sung by Michael W. Smith) words by Music and Words by Marie Barnett http://www.letsreadgreek.com/songs/unti ... edhymn.htm

Louis Sorenson

[LSorenson]

I'm having a discussion with someone about the use of ἐφ' ᾧ. I've used it in the opening phrases of the song "Never Gonna Stop" as the beginning of several lines for "For the ...". Mark (in the email below questions the usage). I have looked up passages in the TLG database using Diogenes and have found that most of the usages of ἐφ' ᾧ are followed by complete sentences, but some are not. In the following lines 1, 4, 5 are all lines which the singer/reader must fill in the blank - I've listed the words they should fill in in parentheses. Line 2 is in the predicate position, line 3 is a complete sentence.

(1) ἐφ' ᾧ τὸ καλὸν τὸ πεφαμμένον (ἦν)
(2) ἐφ' ᾧ τὰ μυστήρια ἄγνωστα
(3) ἐφ' ᾧ τὰς δυναμεῖς εἴδαμεν
σε ἐπαινοῦμεν (Κύριε).
(4) ἐφ' ᾧ ὁ τῆς ἀγάπης σου λόγος (ἐδηλώθη)
(5) ἐφ' ᾧ τὸ θαῦμα σου αἶματος (ὤφθην ἡμῖν)
διότι καθαρίζει τὸν ἁμαρτωλὸν
οἰὸν ὠς ἐμέ.

English:
For Your beauty that's been shown
For Your mysteries unknown
For the miracles we've seen
We praise You Lord
For the story of Your love
For the wonder of Your blood
How it makes the sinner clean
Someone like me


The song can be found at http://www.letsreadgreek.com/songs/neve ... nastop.htm

Is this an incorrect usage of ἐφ' ᾧ?

Louis

email correspondence as follows
----------------------------
(From Mark)
Now you've got me curious to see what others of the list would think, but
it still seems wrong to me. In all the NT passages you cited EP' hWi seems
to be essentially a conjuction, linking a verbal phrase, not a preposition used
directly with a noun. I still think hUPER is what is needed, though you would
have to put all those nouns in the gen, which may throw off your rhythm. Phil
4:10 may be preposition, though, so your usage may be right. I'm just not sure.

I checked out that you-tube. Glad to know that there are people out there
interested in koine that can do stuff like that. I expect some very good
video, not just audio stuff to soon be available.

--- On Sun, 4/5/09, Louis Sorenson <llsorenson@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Louis Sorenson <llsorenson@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Song: Never Gonna Stop
To: lightmanmark
Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 4:50 PM

ἐφ' ᾧ = "for the reason that" Ro 5.12; 2 Cor 5:4; Phil 3:12; (and 4:10?); See Blass-De-Brunner §232(2) and 294(4). Citation as follows:

"There are in addition fixed phrases like ἀνθ' ὧν = ἀντὶ τούτων ότι, ἐφ' ᾧ = ἐπὶ τούτῳ ὅτι, διότι = διὰ τοῦτο , further ἐν ᾧ, ἐν οἷς, ἀφ' οὗ, μέχρις οὗ, etc. ἐφ' ὅσον Mt 25:40; Barn 4..11, 17.1

I struggled over using it and had the choice of ἐπί, ἐπεί, ὅτι, etc., or the simple dative. Ιt seems that ἐφ' ᾧ is a conjunction able to introduce a dependent sentence. It is kind of a contraction (circumlocution) and means "for the fact that". It fit the meanings of all sentences and supports multiple constructions. It also seems poetic, and worked well. Am I correct in its usage?. I'm not sure.

Louis

[LSorenson]

So far I have about 19 songs translated. Some have audio. http://www.letsreadgreek.com/songs/ Some are OK and some need some work. I've got a couple of Bob Dylan songs somewhere too...

Louis

* All Who are Thirsty (Vineyard) (7-21-2009)
* Awesome God (Rick Mullin) with Chreia.
* Breathe* (written by Marie Barnett; sung by Michael W. Smith)
* Draw Me Close to You*
* Forever (Chris Tomlin) (9/7/2009)
* He is Able (Noland/Ferguson) (10/1/09)
* He's Able (Paino / Peterson) (10/2/09)
* He is Lord (unknown/Fettke)(9/30/09
* He Knows My Name "I have a Maker" (Tommy Walker) 10-15-2009 new
* How Great is Our God (7-17-2009)
* Joy in My Heart!. (7/2009)
* Lord I Lift Your Name on High (9/7/2009)
* Mighty to Save* (Hillsong)
* Never Gonna Stop* by Tommy Walker
* The Famous One (Jesse Reeves and Chris Tomlin) 7-10-2009
* Untitled Hymn* (written and sung by Chris Rice)
* Via Dolorosa* (Sandy Patti)
* Worthy is the Lamb (Agnus Dei) (8-28-09)
* Zacchaeus (7/2009)

[KramerKram]

So far I have about 19 songs translated. Some have audio. http://www.letsreadgreek.com/songs/ Some are OK and some need some work. I've got a couple of Bob Dylan songs somewhere too...

Louis

* All Who are Thirsty (Vineyard) (7-21-2009)
* Awesome God (Rick Mullin) with Chreia.
* Breathe* (written by Marie Barnett; sung by Michael W. Smith)
* Draw Me Close to You*
* Forever (Chris Tomlin) (9/7/2009)
* He is Able (Noland/Ferguson) (10/1/09)
* He's Able (Paino / Peterson) (10/2/09)
* He is Lord (unknown/Fettke)(9/30/09
* He Knows My Name "I have a Maker" (Tommy Walker) 10-15-2009 new
* How Great is Our God (7-17-2009)
* Joy in My Heart!. (7/2009)
* Lord I Lift Your Name on High (9/7/2009)
* Mighty to Save* (Hillsong)
* Never Gonna Stop* by Tommy Walker
* The Famous One (Jesse Reeves and Chris Tomlin) 7-10-2009
* Untitled Hymn* (written and sung by Chris Rice)
* Via Dolorosa* (Sandy Patti)
* Worthy is the Lamb (Agnus Dei) (8-28-09)
* Zacchaeus (7/2009)

Nice! Keep up the good work.

[Damoetas]

Good ideas, but I think you're going about this backwards. First decide what verb you want to use for "praise" (ἐπαινέω is good; εὐλογέω or δοξάζω could also work). Then look up instances of that verb and see what types of expressions it takes for "the grounds on which you praise someone." I'm guessing that διά + noun in the accusative will be common; perhaps also ὄτι + a clause. Also, some of those passive English sentences could be made active, e.g. instead of "For your beauty that's been shown," maybe "For your beauty that you have shown" or even "Because of your beauty." Try all of those in Greek and see what sounds good.... Hope that helps!

I'm having a discussion with someone about the use of ἐφ' ᾧ. I've used it in the opening phrases of the song "Never Gonna Stop" as the beginning of several lines for "For the ...". Mark (in the email below questions the usage). I have looked up passages in the TLG database using Diogenes and have found that most of the usages of ἐφ' ᾧ are followed by complete sentences, but some are not. In the following lines 1, 4, 5 are all lines which the singer/reader must fill in the blank - I've listed the words they should fill in in parentheses. Line 2 is in the predicate position, line 3 is a complete sentence.

(1) ἐφ' ᾧ τὸ καλὸν τὸ πεφαμμένον (ἦν)
(2) ἐφ' ᾧ τὰ μυστήρια ἄγνωστα
(3) ἐφ' ᾧ τὰς δυναμεῖς εἴδαμεν
σε ἐπαινοῦμεν (Κύριε).
(4) ἐφ' ᾧ ὁ τῆς ἀγάπης σου λόγος (ἐδηλώθη)
(5) ἐφ' ᾧ τὸ θαῦμα σου αἶματος (ὤφθην ἡμῖν)
διότι καθαρίζει τὸν ἁμαρτωλὸν
οἰὸν ὠς ἐμέ.

English:
For Your beauty that's been shown
For Your mysteries unknown
For the miracles we've seen
We praise You Lord
For the story of Your love
For the wonder of Your blood
How it makes the sinner clean
Someone like me


The song can be found at http://www.letsreadgreek.com/songs/neve ... nastop.htm

Is this an incorrect usage of ἐφ' ᾧ?

Louis

email correspondence as follows
----------------------------
(From Mark)
Now you've got me curious to see what others of the list would think, but
it still seems wrong to me. In all the NT passages you cited EP' hWi seems
to be essentially a conjuction, linking a verbal phrase, not a preposition used
directly with a noun. I still think hUPER is what is needed, though you would
have to put all those nouns in the gen, which may throw off your rhythm. Phil
4:10 may be preposition, though, so your usage may be right. I'm just not sure.

I checked out that you-tube. Glad to know that there are people out there
interested in koine that can do stuff like that. I expect some very good
video, not just audio stuff to soon be available.

--- On Sun, 4/5/09, Louis Sorenson <llsorenson@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Louis Sorenson <llsorenson@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Song: Never Gonna Stop
To: lightmanmark
Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 4:50 PM

ἐφ' ᾧ = "for the reason that" Ro 5.12; 2 Cor 5:4; Phil 3:12; (and 4:10?); See Blass-De-Brunner §232(2) and 294(4). Citation as follows:

"There are in addition fixed phrases like ἀνθ' ὧν = ἀντὶ τούτων ότι, ἐφ' ᾧ = ἐπὶ τούτῳ ὅτι, διότι = διὰ τοῦτο , further ἐν ᾧ, ἐν οἷς, ἀφ' οὗ, μέχρις οὗ, etc. ἐφ' ὅσον Mt 25:40; Barn 4..11, 17.1

I struggled over using it and had the choice of ἐπί, ἐπεί, ὅτι, etc., or the simple dative. Ιt seems that ἐφ' ᾧ is a conjunction able to introduce a dependent sentence. It is kind of a contraction (circumlocution) and means "for the fact that". It fit the meanings of all sentences and supports multiple constructions. It also seems poetic, and worked well. Am I correct in its usage?. I'm not sure.

Louis