Mongomery's speech jussive subjunctive
-
- Administrator
- Posts: 2744
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:51 pm
- Location: ὁ τοῦ βασιλέως λίθος, London, Europe
- Contact:
Mongomery's speech jussive subjunctive
In August 1940 Montgomery on taking command of the 8th Army made a speech to the leading officers.
The following is loosely based on that speech.
φυλάξωμεν Αἴγυπτον ἐνθάδε ἐν Ἀλαμεινι. μὴ σταυρώσωμεν παρὰ Νειλῳ. κελεύσωμεν τοὺς λοχοῦς νῦν παρὰ Νειλῳ ὄντες προβῆναι πρὸς Ἀλαμεινα. στῶμεν καὶ μαχεσώμεθα ἐνθάδε. μὴ ἀναχωρήσωμεν. καύσωμεν τὰς γνώμας τὰς περὶ τοῦ ἀναχωρεῖν λεγούσας καὶ παραχρῆμα. ἐὰν οὐ οἶοι τ' ὦμεν ἐνθάδε ζῆν, θάνωμεν ἐνθάδε.
ὁ πρωτὸς ἄρχων παρήγγελκεν ἡμᾶς ἀπολέσαν τοὺς πολεμίους ἐν Λιβύη. ποιήσωμεν ἐκεῖνον. ἐπεὶ Ρομελ ὁρμήσει ἀμύνωμεν. ἐν τούτῳ παρασκευάσωμεν τὴν μεγάλην προσβολήν. Ρομελ ἐστι τὸ λυπεῖν. παίσωμεν οὖν ἰσχυρῶς αὐτὸν ἵνα τελευτήσῃ.
The above is considerably shorter than the original and I have made jussive some bits that weren't in the original. The final line of Montgomery's speech was "Therefore we will hit him a crack and finish with him." I wanted to make the "and finish with him" a jussive but it seemed to me that was to much of an English idiom to do that with so I settled with a purpose clause which is after all still a subjunctive.
The following is loosely based on that speech.
φυλάξωμεν Αἴγυπτον ἐνθάδε ἐν Ἀλαμεινι. μὴ σταυρώσωμεν παρὰ Νειλῳ. κελεύσωμεν τοὺς λοχοῦς νῦν παρὰ Νειλῳ ὄντες προβῆναι πρὸς Ἀλαμεινα. στῶμεν καὶ μαχεσώμεθα ἐνθάδε. μὴ ἀναχωρήσωμεν. καύσωμεν τὰς γνώμας τὰς περὶ τοῦ ἀναχωρεῖν λεγούσας καὶ παραχρῆμα. ἐὰν οὐ οἶοι τ' ὦμεν ἐνθάδε ζῆν, θάνωμεν ἐνθάδε.
ὁ πρωτὸς ἄρχων παρήγγελκεν ἡμᾶς ἀπολέσαν τοὺς πολεμίους ἐν Λιβύη. ποιήσωμεν ἐκεῖνον. ἐπεὶ Ρομελ ὁρμήσει ἀμύνωμεν. ἐν τούτῳ παρασκευάσωμεν τὴν μεγάλην προσβολήν. Ρομελ ἐστι τὸ λυπεῖν. παίσωμεν οὖν ἰσχυρῶς αὐτὸν ἵνα τελευτήσῃ.
The above is considerably shorter than the original and I have made jussive some bits that weren't in the original. The final line of Montgomery's speech was "Therefore we will hit him a crack and finish with him." I wanted to make the "and finish with him" a jussive but it seemed to me that was to much of an English idiom to do that with so I settled with a purpose clause which is after all still a subjunctive.
λονδον
- y11971alex
- Textkit Member
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:41 am
Re: Mongomery's speech jussive subjunctive
Pardon this seemingly out of place question, but what is Ρομελ?
(I tried to read this speech without consulting the original, which surely would be floating on the Internet.)
(I tried to read this speech without consulting the original, which surely would be floating on the Internet.)
University of Toronto: learning Attic Greek
-
- Administrator
- Posts: 2744
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:51 pm
- Location: ὁ τοῦ βασιλέως λίθος, London, Europe
- Contact:
Re: Mongomery's speech jussive subjunctive
Rommel was the German general who commanded the German forces in North Africa. I did listen to the original speech before I wrote this but it is inspired by that speech rather than a translation. For one thing I increased the use of the jussive subjunctive.y11971alex wrote:Pardon this seemingly out of place question, but what is Ρομελ?
(I tried to read this speech without consulting the original, which surely would be floating on the Internet.)
λονδον
- y11971alex
- Textkit Member
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:41 am
Re: Mongomery's speech jussive subjunctive
I see. I had a vague idea that you might have been writing (or Montgomery speaking) of Rommel, but the single mu put me off.daivid wrote:Rommel was the German general who commanded the German forces in North Africa. I did listen to the original speech before I wrote this but it is inspired by that speech rather than a translation. For one thing I increased the use of the jussive subjunctive.y11971alex wrote:Pardon this seemingly out of place question, but what is Ρομελ?
(I tried to read this speech without consulting the original, which surely would be floating on the Internet.)
University of Toronto: learning Attic Greek
-
- Administrator
- Posts: 2744
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:51 pm
- Location: ὁ τοῦ βασιλέως λίθος, London, Europe
- Contact:
Re: Mongomery's speech jussive subjunctive
I was trying to write it in the way that a Ancient Greek might write it. There is something to be said for Markos' approach of simple not translating such names but it doesn't feel right for me.y11971alex wrote:I see. I had a vague idea that you might have been writing (or Montgomery speaking) of Rommel, but the single mu put me off.daivid wrote:Rommel was the German general who commanded the German forces in North Africa. I did listen to the original speech before I wrote this but it is inspired by that speech rather than a translation. For one thing I increased the use of the jussive subjunctive.y11971alex wrote:Pardon this seemingly out of place question, but what is Ρομελ?
(I tried to read this speech without consulting the original, which surely would be floating on the Internet.)
λονδον
- y11971alex
- Textkit Member
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:41 am
Re: Mongomery's speech jussive subjunctive
Personally, I think failing to decline would be to deny a word a place in the sentence, since each word must be inflected to reflect its role in a sentence in the language. This partly explains my fascinations with third declension nouns, which permits the full stem to be retained, at the sacrifice of the nominative, in at least the oblique cases while not offending the rules of the language.daivid wrote: I was trying to write it in the way that a Ancient Greek might write it. There is something to be said for Markos' approach of simple not translating such names but it doesn't feel right for me.
University of Toronto: learning Attic Greek
-
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 2966
- Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:07 pm
- Location: Colorado
- Contact:
Re: Mongomery's speech jussive subjunctive
ὁ τῆς ἐρήμου Ἀλώπηξ.y11971alex wrote:...what is Ρομελ?
οὐ μανθάνω γράφειν, ἀλλὰ γράφω τοῦ μαθεῖν.
- jeidsath
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 5342
- Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:42 pm
- Location: Γαλεήπολις, Οὐισκόνσιν
Re: Mongomery's speech jussive subjunctive
ῶ καλέ νοθέ Ρομελ τὴν βίβλον σου ἀνάγνων.ὁ τῆς ἐρήμου Ἀλώπηξ.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
-
- Administrator
- Posts: 2744
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:51 pm
- Location: ὁ τοῦ βασιλέως λίθος, London, Europe
- Contact:
Re: Mongomery's speech jussive subjunctive
«μὴ ὀνομάζωμεν τὸν στρατηγὸν τὸν τῆς ἐρήμου ἀλώπεκα.Markos wrote:ὁ τῆς ἐρήμου Ἀλώπηξ.
μὴ φοβῶμεν τοὺς ἐκείνου τοῦ στρατηγοῦ δόλους.»
λονδον
- y11971alex
- Textkit Member
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:41 am
Re: Mongomery's speech jussive subjunctive
οὐ γιγνώσκω ἐξὼν ἀλώπεκι ζῆν ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ. :3Markos wrote:ὁ τῆς ἐρήμου Ἀλώπηξ.y11971alex wrote:...what is Ρομελ?
University of Toronto: learning Attic Greek