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Here's to you by Joan Baez
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:13 pm
by Hampie
Here's to you, Nicola and Bart
Rest forever here in our hearts
The last and final moment is yours
That agony is your triumph
Vobis hoc, Nicolæ Bartoque,
requiescant in pace cordibus.
Vobis ultimum estis momentum.
Agoniens triumphavistis.
My first translation ever.
Re: Here's to you by Joan Baez
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:54 pm
by Craig_Thomas
l1.
I like "vobis hoc", though I worry that it looks like a word-for-word rendering of the English, while in fact it means something rather different. "Here's to" is an idiomatic way of toasting someone or something; "here is a drink in honour of ...", one might expand it. "Vobis hoc" seems rather to mean "this poem is for you" ("hoc" agreeing, perhaps, with an implied "carmen"). But "vobis hoc" certainly makes good sense, and has the virtue of brevity, whereas "vobis propinamus" or somesuch would make this line rather longer than the others. So, keep it, I say, but be aware of this difference in meaning. If you were already aware, I apologise.
Nicola and Bart are being directly adressed here, so I think their names should be in the vocative case, rather than in apposition with "vobis".
l3.
"Ultimum momentum" is the subject, so the verb should not be in the second person.
l4.
I'm not sure about the perfect tense here; present seems more fitting.
Is "agoniens" really a word?
Re: Here's to you by Joan Baez
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:18 pm
by Hampie
Craig_Thomas wrote:l1.
I like "vobis hoc", though I worry that it looks like a word-for-word rendering of the English, while in fact it means something rather different. "Here's to" is an idiomatic way of toasting someone or something; "here is a drink in honour of ...", one might expand it. "Vobis hoc" seems rather to mean "this poem is for you" ("hoc" agreeing, perhaps, with an implied "carmen"). But "vobis hoc" certainly makes good sense, and has the virtue of brevity, whereas "vobis propinamus" or somesuch would make this line rather longer than the others. So, keep it, I say, but be aware of this difference in meaning. If you were already aware, I apologise.
Nicola and Bart are being directly adressed here, so I think their names should be in the vocative case, rather than in apposition with "vobis".
l3.
"Ultimum momentum" is the subject, so the verb should not be in the second person.
l4.
I'm not sure about the perfect tense here; present seems more fitting.
Is "agoniens" really a word?
I did a Swedish translation too, and part of my latin translation was whith that still in my mind. In Swedish I translated 'Here's to you' into 'For your sake', only because it made the lyrics singable. I think that is more important than exact meaning correspondance
.
Haha, darnit! It actually was 'est', but I 'corrected' it into estis. Mihi sunt nulli sorores... I knew that it sometimes was not est, in this construction, but I forgot that the items 'owned' should give the verb it's number.
As for agonia, it was a try for the present particip of agonio. I realise now that it has to be conjugated into plural...Agonientes.
Code: Select all
agonio, agoniare, agoniavi, agoniatus V TRANS [EXXEW] Later uncommon
struggle/fight (against); strive unto death (Vulgate Sirach 4:33);
Re: Here's to you by Joan Baez
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:19 pm
by Hampie
First conjugation... Agoniantes, of course...
Re: Here's to you by Joan Baez
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:01 am
by Craig_Thomas
"Agonio" is certainly a new one for me! It's in neither the OLD nor Lewis & Short. I wonder if St. Jerome, not satisfied that there was a Latin equivalent for the Septuagint's "ἀγώνισαι", wasn't the first and last man to ever use it. Before you, that is!
Re: Here's to you by Joan Baez
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:54 am
by Kasper
My brief rendering (brutally plagiarising Hampie:)
Hoc vobis, Nicola et Barte,
Semper requiescite in cordibus [nostris]
Ultimum postremumque vobis
[Illa] acerbitas triumphus est.
I'm not familiar with the melody, unfortunately, but taking elision into account, it seems to come reasonably close in terms of the number of syllables.
K