Textkit Logo

Churchill Challenge, if you dare...

This board is a composition workshop, like a writers' workshop: post your work with questions about style or vocabulary, comment on other people's work, post composition challenges on some topic or form, or just dazzle us with your inventive use of galliambics.

Moderator: annis

Churchill Challenge, if you dare...

Postby benissimus » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:18 pm

"In this crisis I think I may be pardoned if I do not address the House at
any length today, and I hope that any of my friends and colleagues or
former colleagues who are affected by the political reconstruction will
make all allowances for any lack of ceremony with which it has been
necessary to act.

I say to the House as I said to ministers who have joined this
government, I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat. We
have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us
many, many months of struggle and suffering.

You ask, what is our policy? I say it is to wage war by land, sea,
and air. War with all our might and with all the strength God has given
us, and to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the
dark and lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy.

You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word. It is victory.
Victory at all costs ‐ Victory in spite of all terrors ‐ Victory, however long
and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival.
Let that be realized. No survival for the British Empire, no survival for
all that the British Empire has stood for, no survival for the urge, the
impulse of the ages, that mankind shall move forward toward his goal.
I take up my task in buoyancy and hope. I feel sure that our cause will
not be suffered to fail among men. I feel entitled at this juncture, at this
time, to claim the aid of all and to say, "Come then, let us go forward
together with our united strength."

I will post my Latin translation sometime within the week. Let's assume that, unless otherwise notified, each person who responds is open to receiving constructive criticism on their translations. Good luck!
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
User avatar
benissimus
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Re: Churchill Challenge, if you dare...

Postby petitor » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:20 am

In hoc discrimine, si apud Curiam hodie non copiose contionem habeam, ignosci mihi licere censeo, et spero ex amicis meis ac praesentibus pristinisve collegis quemcumque renovatione politica affectum fore ut ullae officii inopiae, quacum iam agere necesse est, totus indulgeat.

Curiae, ut dixi administris qui se ad hoc regimen adiunxerunt, nisi et cruorem et laborem et maerorem et sudorem me nullum ad praebendum habere dico. nobis enim praepositum est summae gravitatis certamen, in quo perdiu in menses luctanda lugendaque erunt.

Rogatis, quid de consilio faciamus? at ego bellum terra et mari et aere gerendum esse dico. bellum summa cum ope nostra cunctaque fortitudinis a Deo donatae, atque inferendum in foedam tyrannidem, quae ex sceleris atro flebilique humani indice est a nullo praestita, nobis vero consilium est.

Rogatis, quem ad finem petamus? at ego unico verbo dico: victoria. victoria sine pretio. victoria prae omni terrore. victoria, diutino asperoque itinere, sine qua nobis nulla quidem salus est. hoc, patres conscripti, scitote: neque Imperio Britannico, neque omnibus ab Imperio Britannico constatis, neque conatui, ei aetatum impulsui, quod omnes gentes prorsus ad finem movebuntur, salutem ullam. hanc ego curam cum audacia ac spe suscipio. neque causam nostram ab hominibus defecturam esse credo, sed potius hoc puncto, hoc tempore, me dignum esse sentio qui omnium adiumentum postulem et dicam: “venitedum, prodeamus una coniunctis cum viribus.”
Last edited by petitor on Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
ignorantes latinam deo minore nati
petitor
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:16 am

Re: Churchill Challenge, if you dare...

Postby Scribo » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:05 pm

Can I attempt even though I'm barely intermediate?
User avatar
Scribo
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:28 pm
Location: Between Ilias and Odysseia.

Re: Churchill Challenge, if you dare...

Postby spiphany » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:47 pm

Here is my attempt at the second and third paragraphs. I'm still struggling with figuring out the idioms for the first and fourth.

φημι οὑτὼς τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ ὡς ἔφην τοῖς βουλευταῖς· οὐδὲν παρέχομαι πλὴν αἴματος καμάτου τε δακρύων τε καὶ ἰδρῶτος. τοῦτον γὰρ τὸ πρὸς ἡμῶν ἀγὼν βαρύτατον ἔσται, οὗτος δε ὁ πρὸς ἡμῶν αἰῶν μακρὸς ἔσται πολύμοχθος τε και ἀλγεινὸς.

ἐρωτᾶς, τὶ τὸ ἐπιτήδειον ἡμέτερον; φημι ὥστε πεζομαχεῖν ναυμαχεῖν τε καί ἀερομαχεῖν. τὸ μάχεσθαι πάσῃ τῇ βιᾷ, παντὶ τῷ κρατεὶ ἐκ τοῦ δαίμονος. καὶ δὲ μάχεσθαι τυρράνῳ τῷ ἀσεβείᾳ ὑπερβάλλοντι πάσας κακουργίας βροτείους. τοῦτο τὸ ἐπιτήδειον ἡμέτερον.

ἐρωτᾶς, τί σπεύομεν; ἀνταμείψομαι δε λόγοις ὀλίγοις· ἡ νίκη.


Scribo: I don't see why not. As far as I'm concerned, it's about the learning process.
Last edited by spiphany on Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IPHIGENIE: Kann uns zum Vaterland die Fremde werden?
ARKAS: Und dir ist fremd das Vaterland geworden.
IPHIGENIE: Das ist's, warum mein blutend Herz nicht heilt.
(Goethe, Iphigenie auf Tauris)
spiphany
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 425
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:15 am
Location: Munich

Re: Churchill Challenge, if you dare...

Postby NateD26 » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:37 pm

Hi, spiphany. can you explain the agreement in the first part of this sentence?
τοῦτον γὰρ τὸ πρὸς ἡμῶν ἀγὼν βαρύτατον ἔσται, οὗτος δε ὁ πρὸς ἡμῶν αἰῶν μακρὸς ἔσται πολύμοχθος τε και ἀλγεινὸς.

if ἀγὼν is nominative., why the accusative.masc. demon. pron.? [or do you mean the neut. that is often written in prose the same as masc.?]
and why βαρύτατον as acc. or is it neut. again?
also, αἰῶν should be αἰών as nom. or αἰῶνος as gen. but if you meant gen. shouldn't it be the other way around:
a "period of something" rather than "something of period"?

wouldn't this construction be more suitable?

οὗτος μὲν ὁ πρὸς ἡμῶν ἀγὼν βαρύτατος ἔσται, οὗτος δ᾿ ὁ [πρὸς ἡμῶν] αἰὼν μακρὸς ἔσται πολυμόχθοῦ τε και ἀλγεινοῦ.

sorry if I'm wrong in my points, just wish to learn.
Nate.
NateD26
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:14 am

Re: Churchill Challenge, if you dare...

Postby spiphany » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:53 pm

NateD26 wrote:Hi, spiphany. can you explain the agreement in the first part of this sentence?
τοῦτον γὰρ τὸ πρὸς ἡμῶν ἀγὼν βαρύτατον ἔσται, οὗτος δε ὁ πρὸς ἡμῶν αἰῶν μακρὸς ἔσται πολύμοχθος τε και ἀλγεινὸς.

if ἀγὼν is nominative., why the accusative.masc. demon. pron.?

Um, because apparently I thought the noun was neuter for some reason? :oops: And because I haven't done so much prose composition that I don't confuse my paradigms sometimes. Don't assume any odd syntactical constructions are intentional -- I'm not experienced enough to try anything that sophisticated.

wouldn't this construction be more suitable?

οὗτος μὲν ὁ πρὸς ἡμῶν ἀγὼν βαρύτατος ἔσται, οὗτος δ᾿ ὁ [πρὸς ἡμῶν] αἰὼν μακρὸς ἔσται πολυμόχθοῦ τε και ἀλγεινοῦ.

Yes, except I'm not sure why the final adjectives would be in the genitive, as they were intended to agree with αἰὼν. I didn't translate the final part of this sentence literally; I was aiming for something like "this period before us will be long and painful and full of struggle ('much-struggling', the compound with πολυ- meant as a Homeric echo). I suspect I may also need another καὶ somewhere in there:
οὗτος δε ὁ πρὸς ἡμῶν αἰών μακρὸς ἔσται καὶ πολύμοχθός τε καὶ ἀλγεινὸς
But I'm unsure of the nuances of Greek discourse particle usage.
IPHIGENIE: Kann uns zum Vaterland die Fremde werden?
ARKAS: Und dir ist fremd das Vaterland geworden.
IPHIGENIE: Das ist's, warum mein blutend Herz nicht heilt.
(Goethe, Iphigenie auf Tauris)
spiphany
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 425
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:15 am
Location: Munich

Re: Churchill Challenge, if you dare...

Postby NateD26 » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:44 pm

Oh, thanks.

EDIT: but there's no need for another καὶ. the postpositive τε adds the second and the καὶ
adds the third.
Nate.
NateD26
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:14 am


Return to Composition Board

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests