Textkit Greek and Latin Forums

I found a nice Greek NT primer at (http://www.biblefortoday.org/greek.htm ) it follows Beginning Grammar to the Greek New Testament By Davis, there are 37 two hour sound files, it’s helping quite a bit! But I have a fundamental problem, my English I failed every English class because of lack of caring, but now I am very interesting in learning NT Greek. I’m having a little hard time figuring out the Subject, Object and the Indirect Object concepts of today’s NT Greek rendering, with the primers uses of Ablative, Locative, Instrumental, and Vocative cases.

Below are a few examples of what I’m struggling with...

The man wishes to find bread for the apostles.

I see this sentence this way,
The man = subject
wishes = verb
to find = verb
bread = direct Object
apostles = Indirect Object

If I’m right it should translate, ὁ ἀνθρωπος θέλει εὑρίσκειν ἄρτον ἀποστολῷ

******

We see the friends of the Lord.

(Is the friend’s direct Object or the subject?)

We see = verb
friends = direct Object
of the Lord = Genitive

1) βλέπομεν ὁ φίλους κύριου

We see = verb
the friends = subject
of the Lord = Genitive

2) βλέπομεν φίλοι κύριου


BTW here is a cool macro for MS word that allows you with a pouch of a button to type in and out Greek and English in MS Word. http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~hancock/antioch2.htm

palindrome wrote:But I have a fundamental problem, my English I failed every English class because of lack of caring, but now I am very interesting in learning NT Greek.

Your understanding of English grammar will be much improved as you study Greek — one of the side benefits of studying these languages.

The man wishes to find bread for the apostles.

If I’m right it should translate, ὁ ἀνθρωπος θέλει εὑρίσκειν ἄρτον ἀποστολῷ

First, someone who knows Koine better will have to verify for me that a bare dative can be used in the benefactive sense. I might be tempted to use a preposition here. Nonetheless, your analysis is basically correct. You do have some errors, but typical for a beginner — you should use the article, and you messed up the number and accent: τοῖς ἀποστόλοις.

We see the friends of the Lord.

(Is the friend’s direct Object or the subject?)

"Friends" is the direct object. "We" is the subject. For the phrase "the X of the Y" Greek likes to sandwitch the "of the Y" part between the definite article and the noun, "the of-the-Y X." So, βλέπομεν τοὺς τοῦ Κυρίου φίλους.

Thanks annis, your post was very helpful.

I’m starting to realize, you don’t read Greek, you think it...

annis wrote:

palindrome wrote:

The man wishes to find bread for the apostles.

If I’m right it should translate, ὁ ἀνθρωπος θέλει εὑρίσκειν ἄρτον ἀποστολῷ

First, someone who knows Koine better will have to verify for me that a bare dative can be used in the benefactive sense. I might be tempted to use a preposition here.

I don't know which is more common, with or without preposition but both occur. Case without preposition is definitely not as common in Koine (no pun intended) as in attic. For instance I don't think that dative of location without preposition ever occurs in the NT.

palindrome wrote:I’m starting to realize, you don’t read Greek, you think it...

That should be the goal, yes.

Bert wrote:

annis wrote:
First, someone who knows Koine better will have to verify for me that a bare dative can be used in the benefactive sense. I might be tempted to use a preposition here.

I don't know which is more common, with or without preposition but both occur. Case without preposition is definitely not as common in Koine (no pun intended) as in attic. For instance I don't think that dative of location without preposition ever occurs in the NT.

The dative of advantage occurs pretty regularly in the New Testament. I likewise can't say it is more common than with a preposition, but it is common enough. In fact, as I sit here, I am not sure what preposition would be used for advantage.