Textkit Logo

1 John 2:19

Are you learning New Testament Greek with Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek? Here's where you can meet other learners using this textbook. Use this board to ask questions and post your work for feedback. Use this forum too to discuss all things Koine, LXX & New Testament Greek including grammar, syntax, textbook talk and more.

1 John 2:19

Postby BibleShockers » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:26 pm

Would someone be able to comment on the subtleties of grammar in 1 John 2:19, particularly the role of the pluperfect?

Thanks,
Author of "Bible Shockers!" - a collection of disturbing observations of and about the Bible.
http://bibleshockers.blogspot.com
BibleShockers
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:56 pm
Location: Alabama

Postby AnAmerican » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:08 pm

1Jn 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1Jn 2:29 εαν ειδητε οτι δικαιος εστιν γινωσκετε οτι πας ο ποιων την δικαιοσυνην εξ αυτου γεγεννηται
AnAmerican
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:29 pm

Postby AnAmerican » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:09 pm

AnAmerican
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:29 pm

Thanks. Any thoughts on the significance of the pluperfect?

Postby BibleShockers » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:04 pm

Hi, friend. Thanks for the reply.

I am peer reviewing my reading/interpretation of this verse. To my mind it relates to a situation such as the one in Acts 15:

1 ¶ And certain having come down from Judea, were teaching the brethren—‘If ye be not circumcised after the custom of Moses, ye are not able to be saved;’
2 there having been, therefore, not a little dissension and disputation to Paul and Barnabas with them, they arranged for Paul and Barnabas, and certain others of them, to go up unto the apostles and elders to Jerusalem about this question,

These would have come "from James" but, not tracking with James, they were not "of James." We might have the same thing here:

Ga 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

So, in my thinking, the pluperfect pegs the time as being relevant to when these self-appointed missionaries went out and spoke as if they were representing the community. So I get a reading like this:

19 They went originated from us [our community], but they were not [part] of us; for if they had been [part] of us, they would no doubt have been continuing [in line] with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all [representative] of us.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Bill
Author of "Bible Shockers!" - a collection of disturbing observations of and about the Bible.
http://bibleshockers.blogspot.com
BibleShockers
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:56 pm
Location: Alabama

Re: Thanks. Any thoughts on the significance of the pluperfe

Postby modus.irrealis » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:23 pm

modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Thanks so much for the feedback!

Postby BibleShockers » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:27 pm

Author of "Bible Shockers!" - a collection of disturbing observations of and about the Bible.
http://bibleshockers.blogspot.com
BibleShockers
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:56 pm
Location: Alabama

Re: 1 John 2:19

Postby joja » Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:06 pm

Hello, Re: the following Scripture:

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have
continued with us: but they went out, that they might be
made manifest that they were not all of us.

I believe the word "us" is referring to those who
believed like Paul, those of like-minded faith,
and not referring to a community.
It's a "spiritual Body" of believers that have come together,
and " entered " into that group of believers by faith,
becoming one of them.
And who can also depart from that "Body" thereby
maanifesting their unbelief.
joja
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:34 pm


Return to Koine Greek And Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Andrew Chapman, Google Adsense [Bot], Isaac Newton, jaihare and 10 guests